Qantas Boeing 787s could fly from Dubai to European cities

Qantas Boeing 787s could fly from Dubai to European cities

Qantas could resume flights to cities such as Frankfurt, Rome and Paris with its fleet of Boeing 787-9 aircraft while using Dubai as a Dreamliner springboard between Australia and Europe.

As part of an expanded alliance between Qantas and Emirates, Qantas CEO Alan Joyce met with Emirates President Tim Clark last week to “map the way forward over the next three [to] five years”, Gulf News reports.

While Qantas ceased flying from Sydney to Frankfurt in 2013 and wound up its codeshare partnerships with Cathay Pacific to Rome and with Air France to Paris, Australian Business Traveller understands the current agreement with Emirates allows for the Roo’s return to continental Europe using Boeing 787-9 aircraft.

Qantas flies to London via Dubai using Airbus A380s and Emirates codeshares

Read: Where will Qantas fly its new Dreamliners?

After years of delays and deliberation, Qantas firmed up its order for eight of the long-range Boeing 787-9s with delivery from 2017, in addition to purchase rights and options for 45 more: paving the way for a number of new routes while also strengthening existing ones.

Joyce has also played up Perth as a launching pad for non-stop flights into Europe – with the airline successfully running a one-off, direct Perth-Istanbul service earlier this year – but noted that “a seamless domestic to International transfer was essential for the hub operation.

That will become a reality early in the next decade when Qantas’s domestic operations move to the international side of the airport” reported The West Australian.

Meanwhile, Emirates is bullish on expanding its own flights between Australia and Dubai with Clark sharing that “Sydney, Melbourne and Perth are going to be primary areas,” but that Darwin, Cairns, Broome and even Alice Springs were possibilities for new routes from Dubai.

“Growth in our particular market is unabated – as I said, we will look at everything,” Clark added.

Neither Broome nor Alice Springs are currently home to international flights, although Darwin and Cairns are already connected to Asia with airlines such as Cathay Pacific, Malaysia Airlines, China Eastern and China Southern serving one port or the other.

Also read: Qantas to buy Boeing 787, first flights from 2017

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Chris Chamberlin
Chris Chamberlin is a senior journalist with Australian Business Traveller and lives by the motto that a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, a great latte, a theatre ticket and a glass of wine!
 

45 comments

  • smit0847

    smit0847

    6 Oct, 2015 04:56 pm

    QF 'could' also fly A380s between MEL and SYD each day but it doesnt mean they will either.

     

    Its going to be the next century before QF have spare aircraft to start thinking about new routes.

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  • jrfsp

    jrfsp

    6 Oct, 2015 05:20 pm

    Agreed.

    So many hurdles to overcome, the congestion at DXB is becoming a significant problem, with OTP suffering quite badly. So until DWC is open and ATC in the middle east improves - there is limited room for any expansion.

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  • LondonAussie

    LondonAussie

    6 Oct, 2015 08:25 pm

    Not sure how much ATC can improve. If the ME can be plauded on one thing, it is adopting best practice from the Western world.

    Dubai has some of the best Westernised people and technology, I think given the level of traffic is not far remooved from LHR, which has multiple airports, DXB does quite well.

    That all said, another airport and/or additional runway will work wonders for them.

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  • LondonAussie

    LondonAussie

    6 Oct, 2015 08:26 pm

    Correction, LHR doesn't have multiple ports, London does.... Anyway, you get my contention!

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  • Frank

    Frank

    7 Oct, 2015 05:24 pm

    Indeed, my wife flew into DXB at 0500 this morning on an A380 and it took her an hour to get to the lounge, even with a J class start.

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  • riley

    riley

    6 Oct, 2015 05:20 pm

    Will this mean catching a 30 minute bus from the tarmac to the terminal, then back again, when transiting through Dubai in a non A380?

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  • Himeno

    Himeno

    6 Oct, 2015 07:12 pm

    EK (and QF while the tie up remains in place) will soon have sole access to Concourses A, B and C at DXB. All other airlines are moving to the new Concourse D in coming months.

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  • Frank

    Frank

    7 Oct, 2015 05:25 pm

    see my post above..

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  • SH Tan

    adelguy

    6 Oct, 2015 07:15 pm

    Alan Joyce, can we fly to Europe via SIN instead, please?

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  • abudhabi1

    abudhabi1

    6 Oct, 2015 10:28 pm

    I miss those days having done the MEL/SIN/MEL QF9/QF10 back in the days when we had the 744'S ON THEM.It was great with the schedules.

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  • Ho Really

    Ho Really

    7 Oct, 2015 01:39 pm

    Yes, yes and yes! But it won't happen :-(

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  • Himeno

    Himeno

    6 Oct, 2015 07:19 pm

    Hasn't QF said a number of times that they want daily flights to Paris?

    Under the current agreement with France, Australian carriers could only get daily flights to mainland France if they used A320/737 sized aircraft with less then 200 seats. The assumed seat count for QF 789s would only be able to get 5 flights/week. 747/A380 can only get 3.

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  • Tom Goddard

    TomGoddardd

    6 Oct, 2015 07:37 pm

    QF should bargain for an agreement with EK that they can go to Europe through Asia/Australia as well

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  • Himeno

    Himeno

    6 Oct, 2015 07:54 pm

    QF also has rights to get to Europe via the Americas....

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  • LondonAussie

    LondonAussie

    6 Oct, 2015 08:28 pm

    Thats a long flight..... Commercilly unviable, as most pax go longer (time wise) flights for being cheap, not longer flights for being longer distance (and hence more fuel more cost).

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  • Arcanum

    Arcanum

    7 Oct, 2015 03:57 am

    Not necessarily.  It depends on the particular routing and what the demand/costs/fares are for it.

    For example, Air New Zealand discontinued their AKL-HKG-LHR service but kept the longer AKL-LAX-LHR.  I imagine it had to do with utilization (do something productive with a plane that would otherwise be sitting around all day at LAX) plus less competition/higher fares on the LAX-LHR sector compared to HKG-LHR.

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  • petrhsr

    petrhsr

    7 Oct, 2015 10:32 am

    LAX-LHR-LAX has been outstandingly successful for NZ because J pax have woken-up to the fact that Business Premier is streets ahead of AA's 77W J product, and in another galaxy compared to the hideous and laughably outdated Club World that still plagues BA, even on the 388 fleet.  If you can travel in J between LAX and LHR, why on earth would you fly BA when you can fly NZ? 

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  • aklrunway

    aklrunway

    7 Oct, 2015 11:49 am

    NZ are a far superior airline to AA - I agree!

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  • Himeno

    Himeno

    7 Oct, 2015 01:08 pm

    If people will go South East Asia/South West Pacific - North America via Europe/Middle East, they'll go South East Asia/South West Pacific - Europe via North America.

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  • abudhabi1

    abudhabi1

    7 Oct, 2015 11:55 am

    With all these problems in the Middle East You would be silly not to go via America.Off the topic a little I kind of remember the ads that promoted Panam One Stop out of Sydney or Two Stop out of Mebourne to Europe of the Eighties.

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  • Mark

    Mightyreds

    6 Oct, 2015 08:06 pm

    Please bring back Singapore!!!

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  • LondonAussie

    LondonAussie

    6 Oct, 2015 08:31 pm

    If you analyse the ticket pattern QF/EK partnership, this may be the plan in place already.

    I can purchase QF tickets to MEL/BNE/SYD via DXB and SIN/KUL on QF codeshares now. So, it would make sence if QF negotiated already the ability to have their own metal doing similar routes and hence the codesharing allows this....

    Food for thought?

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  • bsbtraveller

    bsbtraveller

    6 Oct, 2015 08:24 pm

    They've ordered 8 planes and are replacing 744's. What is the point of this blog?

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  • Michael Tran

    DOPEFRESHNATION

    6 Oct, 2015 09:32 pm

    the first five of the order is to replace the 747's while the three left can be used for new routes.

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  • AJW

    AJW

    7 Oct, 2015 10:20 am

    Not quite Michael. When the order was annouced Qantas said all 8 are required to replace the 5 747's. The extra 3 are requried to maintain seat capacity.

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  • TheRealBabushka

    TheRealBabushka

    7 Oct, 2015 09:38 am

    The point of this blog is to show that the QF/EK relationship is still alive and well and not so unbalanced as critics would like to suggest.

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  • somethingy23

    somethingy23

    6 Oct, 2015 09:02 pm

    It's all ifs and buts until Qantas actually receive the planes.

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  • Alex_upgrade

    alex_upgrade77

    6 Oct, 2015 09:41 pm

    A massive benefit for Emirates in allowing QF to operate their own aircraft ex Dubai to Europe is that it would give them access to cities EK don't currently have access to due to traffic restrictions currrently in place.

    For example, Germany has restricted Emirates access to a maximum of four destinations under the bilateral agreement. This is primarily to protect local players like Lufthansa and Air Berlin. Etihad got around it by buying Air Berlin, but Emirates could solve the problem by letting QF fly into ports like Berlin and codesharing on those flights. QF wouldn't be restricted as they'd be flying under the Australia Germany bilateral agreement.

    Qantas' expansion could piggyback off Emirates' restricted access - solving the problem and leading to a win-win for both airlines.

     

     

    Given that QF, as an Australian registered airline, would 

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  • Alex_upgrade

    alex_upgrade77

    7 Oct, 2015 06:08 am

    Ignore the final line starting "Given that....". 

    (Note to self...always remember to delete bits you've edited out before you press Post!)

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  • Flying Fish

    AWA2602

    6 Oct, 2015 10:34 pm

    I'd rather see more connections via Asia into Europe, EK has plenty of coverage via DXB. Would love to see QF deploy its B787's on Singapore-Paris or Singapore-Rome. I'd still rather transit through SIN than DXB, the flight lengths better suit my work and sleep patterns when I travel between Australia and Europe.

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  • Arcanum

    Arcanum

    7 Oct, 2015 04:21 am

    Logistically, it makes more sense to have a single scissor hub than random 5th freedom flights from Asia.  I wouldn't hold my breath.

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  • Flying Fish

    AWA2602

    7 Oct, 2015 05:08 am

    I guess SQ will continue to get more of my business...

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  • Alex_upgrade

    alex_upgrade77

    7 Oct, 2015 06:18 am

    I also miss transiting through SIN but I don't see that hub returning in the near / medium future.

    SIN isn't a oneworld hub and there isn't enough local traffic out of Singapore to make it viable. Kuala Lumpur might be an option is MH stays in oneworld and they put their code on the QF flights ex KUL. But I doubt that would happen. QF doesn't have the brand strength in Asia to support that.

    SIN/BKK largely worked previously because of the Joint Services Agreement with BA which filled both airline's planes to/from LHR. That's gone now so flights for QF beyond Singapore to Europe would unlikely be viable. 

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  • Arcanum

    Arcanum

    7 Oct, 2015 08:23 am

    Agreed.  SIN isn't coming back.

    I don't think KUL would work given their shrinking network and subpar on-board product.  The only Asian hub that might be a success would be HKG if QF partnered with CX, but for some reason those two have never played nicely together despite being oneworld partners.

    I maintain that QR would have made a better partner via DOH than EK via DXB.  QR is much smaller so QF would have been a true partner rather than the vassal it plays to EK.  With QR buying a stake in BA's parent, there might have been the opportunity to mend fences with BA and keep some of the Asian connections as well.  Best of both worlds!

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  • Himeno

    Himeno

    7 Oct, 2015 01:15 pm

    To think a few years ago, just before MH announced they were to join oneworld, QF and MH were possible merger partners and QF was looking to MH as a partner in the then planned "Red Q" premium airline.

    We could have seen a QF/MH/BA JV, until QF and MH had a falling out. :/

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  • T L

    Kitch

    7 Oct, 2015 07:04 am

    What about via Doha, Qatar is a one world partner and recently got a new airport, why not

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  • Nick  Sydney 348

    Nick Sydney 2

    7 Oct, 2015 10:22 am

    Excellent. So long as the new QF routes fly out from Sydney. 

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  • maabbot

    maabbot

    7 Oct, 2015 01:08 pm

    Why...? given it's a hub its the connection that matters in DXB and QF already flies there fron Sydney...787 is perfect for QF to open up Brisbane, Perth or Adelaide via DXB...which are new routes.

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  • Nick  Sydney 348

    Nick Sydney 2

    7 Oct, 2015 01:51 pm

    Sorry ...just geting a little rise out of Melboure and Perth residents! On a serious note why would QF lay on a Perth - Paris service when the demand for this would be far higher from Sydney or Melbourne. All a bit academic until it acutally happens

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  • Chris Chamberlin

    ChrisCh

    7 Oct, 2015 02:24 pm

    "Sorry ...just geting a little rise out of Melboure and Perth residents!"

    Please, I think there have been enough off-topic 'Perth'-type comments these past weeks without stirring the pot.

    (However, there's nothing off-topic about discussing Qantas' possible B787 routes as you've otherwise done.) :)

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  • Chris_PER

    Chris_PER

    7 Oct, 2015 12:37 pm

    Interesting that they just cut one flight from Perth yet it's a primary city to expand services...maybe the morning flight to go A380 too....

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  • maabbot

    maabbot

    7 Oct, 2015 01:01 pm

    To me the option that makes sense is Berlin...a port that Qantas can fly to, but EK cannot due to all the politics.  Could Qantas base a 787-9 at Dubai to run the connection, or maybe a Perth-DXB-Berlin?

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  • Michael O'neill

    MickO

    7 Oct, 2015 01:57 pm

    Given that Qantas will have newer more economically viable planes it would be good to see them flying from Perth to DBX again rather than worrying about "new" destinations.  I now do my business to London with Singapore Aiirlines as do many of Qantas'  old Perth customers.  Qantas used to be great when they were an Australian airline rather than the east coast airline they are today....sigh

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  • grov

    grov

    8 Oct, 2015 11:41 pm

    All we seem to hear from QF these days is what they could or may do, while other more progressive airlines are telling us what they ARE doing. Says it all really.

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  • Tom Goddard

    TomGoddardd

    12 Oct, 2015 10:24 am

    Not much point, EK own those routes

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