What do you want from Qantas' Project Sunrise first, business class?

What do you want from Qantas' Project Sunrise first, business class?

TALKING POINT | Last week, Qantas CEO Alan Joyce told Australian Business Traveller that the airline's globe-striding Project Sunrise jets would feature the Roo's 'best ever' first class and business class.

Come 2022 – a mere three years from now – those jets will take wing on non-stop flights from Sydney and Melbourne to London and New York, with many business travellers and Australian Business Traveller readers on board.

Joyce wants those seats to be "the best product we’ve ever put on an aircraft”. That's certainly what we want to see, and we daresay it's what you want too, considering we'll all be nestled in those premium cocoons for 18-20 hours.

So here's your chance to have your say: what do you think Qantas should be looking at for the first class suites and business class seats of these ultra-long range Project Sunrise jets?

For example, should Qantas move to fully private first class suites with a larger footprint, where there's room to get up out of your seat and move around?

How can Qantas make the step-change beyond today's Boeing 787 business class: can it potentially eclipse the stunning Qsuite of its Oneworld sibling Qatar Airways and move into the realm of a 'business plus' experience?

And what can be done to create spaces outside of the seats where passengers can relax, stretch their legs and maybe socialise on these marathon journeys?

Obviously this all has to be done within not only the strict physical and safety confines of these long metal tubes, but within the unforgiving spreadsheet formulae of economics.

So share your ideas here. Be realistic – be reasonable – but also, take this opportunity to be heard.

What do you want to see in first class and business class of Qantas' Project Sunrise jets?

Also read: Why airlines need to rethink the passenger experience on ultra-long range flights

David Flynn
David Flynn is the editor of Australian Business Traveller and a bit of a travel tragic with a weakness for good coffee, shopping and lychee martinis.
 

112 comments

  • David Flynn

    David

    26 Feb, 2019 09:53 am

    Please note that comments will be held for approval before publishing; readers should restrict their suggestions to business class and first class, ensure their comments are on topic, and seek to add value to this article and the conversation.
    No member give thanks

  • StuParr

    StuParr

    26 Feb, 2019 10:03 am

    This might sound strange but some sort of humidifying masks if they exist to lessen the dehydration effects would be a great idea. A bit like the light masks that they use.

    Maybe an area for stretching that PAX can use as part of a bar area.

    Those with the menus and information that they gathered from the Perth to London flights would make for a pretty good experience for me.
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  • Dane Lam

    dlam

    26 Feb, 2019 06:26 pm

    There’s the Humidiflyer, made by an Aussie company. I never fly without it now.
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  • readosunnycoast

    readosunnycoast

    27 Feb, 2019 09:33 am

    Dont forget, these new planes are the "higher pressure" ones with far less dehydration so maybe this is now superfluous.
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  • peteshep

    peteshep

    8 Mar, 2019 09:57 pm

    JAL actually has just the medical masks in their amenities options they bring around - I tried one whilst sleeping and it makes a massive difference, so now I always carry my own and wear when sleeping on planes.
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  • Flying High

    Flying High

    26 Feb, 2019 10:26 am

    The longer the trip, the more important space is. And the ability to move.
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  • AsiaBizTraveller

    AsiaBizTraveller

    26 Feb, 2019 10:28 am

    I'd agree that business and first amenity kits need to be upgraded to suit these long flights. Those 'flight socks' which reduce risk of DVT and some sort of moisturising facial mask, things which go beyond the usual skincare and toothbrush.

    I would certainly like to see a larger first class suite although there would be limits as to how large they can be, Etihad's Boeing 787 first class suites are probably a good example without going all-out like the A380 suites. But part of me thinks that this is what business class should be on a 20hr flight in the year 2022 so maybe first class has to be larger again.

    I think some social area is a must-have, maybe between business and premium economy there should be small stand-up bar area plus some seating and space for stretching. Virgin Australia's Boeing 777s do this really well with their bar.
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  • Anna80

    Anna80

    26 Feb, 2019 10:32 am

    There has to be somewhere apart from the seat, this is one of the criticisms of SQ's Singapore-New York flight. I would really like to see a business class suite, not a seat, with a door for privacy and room to get up, the Qatar Qsuite is amazing and shows the way forward for Qantas. The Qsuite should be the starting point for Project Sunrise business class. And please let's have an extra toilet or two.
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    ljcoz

  • Bob Burgess

    Bob Burgess

    26 Feb, 2019 10:36 am

    I agree with all the points above. Qantas has also done very well with its Perth-London 'wellness meals' and should do more of the same. Dine on demand would be a very good improvement for business class because on a flight that long a lot of people will want to follow their own schedule. Again, just look to Qatar for how to make 'dine on demand' work. Have a really good selection of light meals and main meals so people can pick and choose. Maybe even just have lighter meals but more of them in variety and how many they load, that's probably better for digestion than serving up the traditional main course.
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    Boogs

  • grumpytravel

    grumpytravel

    26 Feb, 2019 10:43 am

    Q Suites similar to Qatar.Toilets with more room.
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    Boogs, Krubi

  • Scotgoat

    Scotgoat

    26 Feb, 2019 10:48 am

    Need to get the basics right before considering gyms etc. Also remember Auckland to Dubai is approximately 17hrs, 10mins, so in reality ‘Project Sunrise’ is not much longer.


    As a minimum for the premium classes, QF needs to have closed in First Class suites, possibly something between the current Emirates First Class and there new ‘larger’ first class suites. For business class, the Qatar Q-Suite style as a minimum, the current QF A330/B787 business class is old hat, and there are better offerings on the market. Not flown the QF B787 premium economy, but understand that leg room is limited, so that would need improving.


    A usable premium social area (EK style bar) is needed for first and business classes, allowing movement etc. Something similar for economy as well, may be a self-service bar and snacks.


    A decent (plenty to choice from) selection of; movies, TV programs, music etc.

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  • smit0847

    smit0847

    26 Feb, 2019 09:25 pm

    Qantas will be unable to sell First class seats if their business class is a QSuites style seat with a sliding door. There is almost nothing they can offer in addition to this to first class passengers to command the sort of price premium first class has.
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  • craigh

    craigh

    26 Feb, 2019 11:08 am

    Definitely need a stand up bar area to move, socialise and just get out of your seat and stretch your legs. Improve the amenities kits. Make the seats more comfortable and/or the bedding more plush.
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    Boeing-Tragic

  • craigh

    craigh

    26 Feb, 2019 12:04 pm

    I forgot to say, more toilets and bigger toilets please!!
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    Krubi, ljcoz

  • Brad

    bske01

    27 Feb, 2019 11:31 pm

    lufthansa lower deck lavatory, that’s what Qantas needs. Proper use of lower (cargo) deck. Buy a freighter for freight and leave aircraft for bags, people, lower deck toilets, leaving space up stairs (main deck) for a signature bar and decent lounge meeting place.
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  • Tim Davies

    Boeing-Tragic

    27 Feb, 2019 03:32 pm

    A bar like that on on VA's MEL-LAX sector (VA 23/24) would be good.
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  • aggie57

    aggie57

    26 Feb, 2019 11:08 am

    Can we please make sure there is plenty of space for feet when in lie flat mode. Actually, in sitting mode as well given some business seats these days are limited in that area as well.

    I do agree some space to walk around and stretch is important but it has to be a space you want to be in. The Emirates 380 bar area is good, the Qantas 380 ‘lounge’ is really wasted space. That may be difficult in a smaller aircraft though.

    Finally, give the crew decent galley space separate to the passenger toilets. In more and more ‘modern’ aircraft it seems the two areas become one.
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  • Dale

    hakkinen5

    26 Feb, 2019 11:12 am

    For me a social area to stand for an hour or so would be great. I wouldn't care if this area didn't have seating.

    Remember if there is say 70 J/F seats and each person wants to stand up for just 2 hours of a 20 hour flight, there will be an average of 7 people in here at a time so it needs to be a decent sized space.

    Next request would be seats/suites with quite a good amount of privacy.
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  • Brenton Thevarakam

    whoppersandwich

    26 Feb, 2019 11:29 am

    The 777X is just about 6m wide inside the cabin, A350 isn’t far behind either. An SQ style first with a large center aisle would be very easy to achieve. That said airlines have been researching the prospect of center aisle J class in widebodies for years.

    Business suite development has come far enough that this is a concept that could be employed reasonably soon - and a low density sunrise aircraft would be the perfect testing ground for it. Concepts I’ve seen so far are staggered 2 - 2 style suites where all parties have direct aisle access thanks to the suite routing, with the center aisle being easier for egress than the twin aisle’s we’re familliar with (thanks to generous width).

    The prospect (at least in J) actually suggests greaterr flying economics for 6ish meter cabin widths - but until it’s deployed I suppose it’s all pie in the sky.
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  • PDR

    PDR

    26 Feb, 2019 11:44 am

    Qantas has done some excellent work on its menu for PER-LHR, which should be the starting point. I would like them to go further, and push the boundaries on what can be done in the galley. There are some amazing concepts and products beginning to be offered by interiors vendors, including induction cooktops to cook from scratch in-flight, proper espresso machines that work at cabin altitude, and so on. These would really help with the premium experience for a 20-hour flight. And, they would also allow Qantas to take advantage of the opportunities to provide premium, tailored service, when you can spread the service out over a longer period of time.

    If Qantas do decide to use the below-deck space for passengers, in flight, I think they could really innovate for First and Business passengers. For example, configure the main cabin in a very open, spacious style for passengers to eat, watch movies, talk, enjoy a bar etc. And place full beds below decks, as a dedicated, private sleep area, without all of the distractions and noises from the main cabin (assuming the deck can be sufficiently sound proofed). If they don't need to provide full-size bed suites for each seat on the main deck, this could allow more space for other amenities such as a bar, lounge, larger galley, more toilets etc.

    Of course, this might limit their ability to use the ULR aircraft on routes like HKG, SIN and LAX, where they would want to use the hold for cargo. The alternative might be to put a bar, lounge, extended galley and the like downstairs.
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  • Adam T

    AT

    26 Feb, 2019 11:48 am

    To do social areas you need realestate and realistically that's limited to an A380 size, unless you go below deck but I honestly doubt the economies of scale will support this.
    F Class - I'd be thinking about a mini-office to work/bed suite to rest, eat & sleep given the price premium, but again not much realestate on a single deck twin aisle aircraft so need to be very creative here.
    J Class - I'd be putting emphasis into creating a best in class mini-office in the sky and pay attention to great ergonomics, and then practical privacy, I'm not convinced privacy doors work. I think the 787 J class is very good and does the job well.
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  • Smith

    RMITLad

    26 Feb, 2019 12:11 pm

    This sounds strange - I’d like to see the inseat massage feature improved to improve circulation, and stimulate blood flow; helping with any swelling, and potentially support DVT.

    Bigger bathroom sinks so you can wash your face, or shave properly!

    I do think dine on demand would be huge improvement.

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    tungaroa

  • wdeguara

    wdeguara

    26 Feb, 2019 12:11 pm

    An onboard shower facility such as what Emirates have available on the a380 would be ideal. Given the long duration of travel, a quick freshen up before landing would be welcomed by premium travellers - particularly those that have to 'hit the ground running' upon arrival at the destination. Also, having a change area separate to the toilet would be welcomed.
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  • mviy

    mviy

    26 Feb, 2019 01:33 pm

    I'd like to see showers too. It would be nice for First Class passengers.

    On the Emirates A380 there's two showers and from what I hear each First Class passenger can use the shower for about 30 minutes I think. So they are not all going to be able to shower just before landing, but then not every passenger would want an onboard shower.
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  • Eli

    Eli

    26 Feb, 2019 02:29 pm

    Showers are not going to happen. Shower in the lounge prior to departure or after landing. EK gives 2.... 5 min showers per pax.
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  • clarkysdonga

    clarkysdonga

    26 Feb, 2019 04:42 pm

    Plus the weight of the extra water
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  • mviy

    mviy

    26 Feb, 2019 11:35 pm

    I meant they can use the shower room for 30 minutes, I think. The point I meant was that with showers not everyone can shower at the same time.
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  • Flying mermaid

    Flying mermaid

    27 Feb, 2019 09:29 pm

    You get 30 minutes to use the room, but 5 minutes of water and you can stop and start the timer again. Doesn’t sound much but plenty to have a shower.
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  • Sydaus

    Sydaus

    26 Feb, 2019 12:22 pm

    Showed for business clsss 🙏 . I would pay extra.
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  • clarkysdonga

    clarkysdonga

    26 Feb, 2019 04:43 pm

    Just shower before you leave and in an arrival lounge
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  • Smith

    RMITLad

    26 Feb, 2019 12:34 pm

    I’d like to see an improvement to the massage features - something more intense to support circulation, and reduce swelling, perhaps also improved mattress to support this as well in both cabins.

    Something small, but bigger basins in the bathrooms so you can wash your face and shave properly.

    Dine on demand would be a good step.

    A small bar would be good also. Somewhere to stretch and not feel you are in the way of the crew.
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  • L Figg

    AALF

    26 Feb, 2019 12:35 pm

    Most definitely a 'social space' a las QR / EK onboard bar. Whilst that is definitely prime real estate, the ability to move around and socialise is of utmost importance.
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  • Pcoder

    Pcoder

    26 Feb, 2019 12:37 pm

    For First Class I'd have have a suite with a recliner seat and a separate mattress that folds out from the side. To reduce the weight, I wouldn't have a message function as I find these not good enough in plane seats. The foot rest should be able to be another seat for dinning with fellow travellers.

    Both Business and first class should have a one bar/lounge to give an opportunity to stretch the legs.

    I'd like business class to use the reverse herringbone seat as I think this is a bit better than the current suite.

    Premium economy and economy should get a little more leg room.

    Premium economy and economy's toilet should be move to the lower deck so that more space can be made on the upper deck. A stretch space and some galley storage could also be moved downstairs.
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  • Dean

    deany83

    26 Feb, 2019 08:04 pm

    Toilets on the lower deck like Lufthansa’s A340 would free up space, perhaps galleys too.
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    Zaps1971

  • turbojezz

    turbojezz

    26 Feb, 2019 12:38 pm

    The fact people are suggesting showers show how quickly this has gone off course.

    Firstly weight is the biggest killer on this flight... So the less walls the better. Walls are heavy. This means no closed in first class and certainly no closed in business with doors. It's so silly!
    To kill 20 hours you need to be able to do one of three things: sleep, work or watch movies/read. Everything else is surperfluous. A stretch/yoga/bar/social area is a great idea and this should change role at certain stages of the flight. Finally QANTAS current premium economy needs to be the new economy for this flight.
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    Concorde1990

  • clarkysdonga

    clarkysdonga

    26 Feb, 2019 04:45 pm

    "To kill 20 hours you need to be able to do one of three things: sleep, work or watch movies/read". You need to eat also...
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  • Nate Webster

    Concorde1990

    27 Feb, 2019 04:04 pm

    Totally agree with turbojezz. Weight is a big issue here. More weight on hard products = less fuel = reduced range and other issues with weather and diversion restrictions.
    There should be no economy on long flights! 3 ½ hrs is my max at 31” pitch. It’s J or better, or I’m not going.
    Shoving pax in such small seats for over 17 hours is really risky. With the aging population and declining general health of the population, DVT poses a significant risk to pax and thereby the airline. Airlines should be smart enough to want to mitigate the risk of a media frenzy and potential court case by ensuring all seats have a decent pitch and width to allow for a slightly above average Australian male.
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  • Brad

    bske01

    27 Feb, 2019 11:57 pm

    First should be Super Suites with lots of windows and private area with seperate bedroom on lower cargo deck or adjacent. Business should be mini suites true flat wide bed. Premium economy should be old business seats with angled flat narrow bed. But squashed together. Economy should have premium recline. Some area for economy + sleep capsules on lower deck.

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  • rstephenp

    rstephenp

    26 Feb, 2019 12:55 pm

    For me the most important need is sleep. I would like flatbeds with larger width so that I am not forced to sleep sideways
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  • russell_abs

    russell_abs

    26 Feb, 2019 01:03 pm

    I would like to see a XXL size in pyjamas as well as the current L-XL. I also like the privacy screens that are offered in Emirates and Etihad. I also think some specialty socks to help with DVT/swelling would be good. The shower room in Emirates is also wonderful but with Qantas moving away from A380 this may not be an option. Food options moving to more freshly prepared options would be nice as well.
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  • Mal

    Mal

    26 Feb, 2019 02:12 pm

    I think showers are very unrealistic here. The only aircraft which have showers are the A380s of Emirates and Etihad. Space will be at a premium on these singe-deck aircraft and every bit of weight carried will add up, and water weighs a lot. Much better for Qantas to offer access to an arrivals lounge where passengers can shower and freshen up, have their shirt pressed etc.

    Something I'd like to see would be an inflight library of magazines and newspapers, like Zinio or PressReader or Readly, which would be updated with latest issues before the aircraft takes off, everything sync'd up to a server on the aircraft, and then you could download them from the server over WiFi during the flight. There's plenty of reading time on an 18 - 20 hour flight and maybe there could be a free trial subscription to those services as part of the deal.
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  • turbojezz

    turbojezz

    27 Feb, 2019 04:54 pm

    yes an arrivals lounge for this flight is critical! great idea :)
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  • Pcoder

    Pcoder

    26 Feb, 2019 03:00 pm

    Showers wouldn't be possible as the water would add to much weight. Beside offering showers before and after a flight, the only other option would be some damp sponge/towel for refreshment, but I'm not sure it would go down too well.
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  • born2fish

    born2fish

    26 Feb, 2019 03:14 pm

    More privacy for First Suites by adding doors and/or higher walls, and slightly wider bed along with larger bathrooms. The current A380 First Suites on QF have a lot of wasted space. Practical amenity kits, including a comb or basic hairbrush, as the facial mist and other fluff are of little consequence if I leave the plane with scruffy bed hair (I'm over having to bring my own comb). A bigger / better TV screen would help instead of the poor quality current ones that often hang crooked (or wobble) on the bracket arm. Look at the EK TV screens for how to do it properly, given you can spend a lot of time watching it on long haul flights.
    If the seat count in First drops by a few to make a little bit more room, that's OK by me, although may reduce redemption / upgrade opportunities for some.

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  • fxdxdy

    fxdxdy

    27 Feb, 2019 07:55 pm

    I think the reason why Australian registered carriers cannot place doors on suites such as the ones you see on Emirates or Singapore airlines is because CASA doesn't allow it.
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  • Peggy Hayes

    Pegasus

    26 Feb, 2019 03:35 pm

    As mentioned previously, a dry place to change clothing would be great. Either make the suite private enough that you can disrobe without drawing applause, or a separate small room where your trousers or socks aren't dampened by whatever moisture is rolling around on the bathroom floor.

    Speaking of which, how can the crew keep the toilets clean during these long-haul flights? Should there be a designated cleaning member on board?

    Space to get up and walk or stand, where you can grab a snack or a sandwich and a drink. A footrest that's a companion seat. Enough storage space for all the bits and bobs you may need during the flight. Loads of accessible power points and USBs. A moveable tray table where you can leave your laptop whilst going to the loo.

    A comfy bed. Ideally, distinct bed zone and sleeping zone. Totally non-realistic but I can dream. :)
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  • Bob Burgess

    Bob Burgess

    26 Feb, 2019 03:51 pm

    The 'change room' is a nice idea but it really will be heavily used at the start of the flight, so big queues and people going to the loo anyway, and then towards the end of the flight, same deal. The rest of the time it will be largely unused, even if some passengers decide to change into their PJs after dinner or halfway through the flight the space would still be very under-utilised. I would rather see larger lavs and more of them.

    As for a moveable tray table, all good business class seats have this already, what you actually want is either a design which lets you easily swing the table out of your way without fully retracting it, or a separate space where you can easily relocate your laptop, so you pick it up and move it to a shelf, a bit like the Qantas Business Suite and Qatar Qsuite already have.
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  • Tim Davies

    Boeing-Tragic

    27 Feb, 2019 03:40 pm

    Perhaps one (1) change room could NOT have a loo? A true 'Powder Room'?
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  • Bob Burgess

    Bob Burgess

    26 Feb, 2019 03:47 pm

    I like the idea of some form of companion dining in a business class suite, very nice to be able to share your meal with your partner. 100% on 'dine on demand', too, it's a big plus factor for me in choosing Qatar Airways for flights to London and Europe.
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  • pdaniels62

    pdaniels62

    26 Feb, 2019 03:58 pm

    I know this is about Premium facilities but spare a thought for those locked in economy. I'm guessing Qantas will run the numbers and I'm a Qantas shareholder, but it will have to push some customers to one stop airlines. Getting there is one thing however how you are when you get there is another
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  • StudiodeKadent

    StudiodeKadent

    26 Feb, 2019 04:02 pm

    For Business class, I honestly think Qantas' 787 product, but perhaps a little wider, would be perfectly acceptable.

    For First, something like Emirates new 1-1-1 suites would also be perfectly acceptable. Honestly, a revised version of QF's current A380 First could be a good place to start... space-wise its more generous than EK's 1-2-1 First suites.

    SQ/Etihad-style suites are simply not necessary (not to mention there are documented design flaws with both airlines' suite concepts... Etihad's suites have chairs with very little recline, and SQ's suites have an awkward position when one is trying to eat one's meals).

    Being realistic: we shouldn't expect the world's most eye-gougingly opulent product. It doesn't have to be, as long as it is private and comfortable. Blinging things up adds unnecessary weight.
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  • grov

    grov

    26 Feb, 2019 04:05 pm

    A bar area and dine on demand are my main choices. The idea of a dry area for clothes changing is also a good one.
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  • Stefan Kane

    DrSK

    26 Feb, 2019 04:46 pm

    I would simply like to see some honesty from QF with respect to what is feasible on these jets, rather than more of the same marketing hyperbole (as demonstrated by the 787). Invitations for pie-in-the-sky daydreams aside, Qantas must be in the relatively advanced stages of determining the LOPA for each of the two primary contenders, taking into consideration cargo / weight restrictions / profit margins / deployability on other routes. QF's primary responsibility is to its shareholders, and it will always cram as many seats onto its jets as its 'home' advantage (familiarity / safety reputation / corporate preference / parochialism / QFF) allows. So until we have a more concrete framework from Qantas, many of the suggestions in posts such as this belong in the realm of fantasy, or onboard an ME3 jet (at least until economic reality hits home for them too, as seems to have started for EY).
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  • chris p

    Booster

    26 Feb, 2019 04:47 pm

    How about some WiFi?
    EK,SG,UA etc. etc. have been offering it for literally years...surly not too much to ask or will it be turned off the moment the aircraft crosses the coastline..
    Am I being unrealistic ? Judging by their current reluctance / inability to roll it out to international travellers maybe I am.
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  • Ozshanel

    Ozshanel

    26 Feb, 2019 10:02 pm

    Qantas have already announced that the Project Sunrise aircraft will have wifi. I am sure that their thinking will be that, by the time the aircraft is ready, technology will have caught up so that they can offer a decent and reliable wifi service, which is not currently the case.
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  • David Flynn

    David

    26 Feb, 2019 10:55 pm

    Booster: the Project Sunrise jets are almost certain to have WiFi, which Qantas intends to launch on across its international fleet from 2021 (see https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-to-launch-high-speed-international-wifi-by-2021). The reason for wait is believed to be so that Qantas can use the high-speed ViaSat-3 network.
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  • GBRGB

    GBRGB

    26 Feb, 2019 05:18 pm

    Somewhere to stand and stretch so you don’t look like some hovering pest to all those seated around you.
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  • Grumpyoldman

    Grumpyoldman

    26 Feb, 2019 05:57 pm

    For me I would trade some of the ideas on private suites for a natural place to walk to, linger and not be stuck in a seat. Some interesting thinking combining snack bar locations, bar, lounge, dining area.

    Having said that, I know some airlines (eg Lufthansa) have tried a “real bed” beside a seat, rather than just a convertible seat. That would be really transformative.
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  • Simon Frost

    SimonFrost

    26 Feb, 2019 07:05 pm

    For me - a nice socialising area, for J/F pax, and wifi. I’m surprised that no ones mentioned a “curtain” option for F (or even J?) like on Air France. Not as heavy as “walls” and there’s something kinda sexy about that AF F class.
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  • Pablo

    Pabs

    26 Feb, 2019 07:13 pm

    I think all of the above are great ideas, but as DrSK said due to 1. economics 2. Space since it's a single deck twin aisle 3. super tight weight margins to make the distance, a lot of the suggestions will likely not make it. Qantas will really need to think very much outside of the box to deliver the best ever premium cabins.
    Menus and food progressing further towards wellbeing meals, having 'wake up' and 'go to sleep' meals. I don't know if the physics and plausibility of it works (not an engineer), but looking at some form of hyperbaric mask for sleep time to help improve quality of sleep. Having some form of common space where at certain times of the flight a cabin crew will conduct a stretching/tai chi session to help move and maintain circulation.
    Basically consult the top sporting clubs in the US and EU for how they carry out recovery for their players with super heavy travel schedules and develop those on a plane.
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  • Fqtv

    Zac

    26 Feb, 2019 08:19 pm

    Firstly I’d send the Project Sunrise design team on a trip on the Q-Suites for inspiration ;)

    I think the critical elements to making 20-22 hours work well are privacy, comfort, the ability to structure the time the way you want to, fresh and healthy F&B options, a change of scenery away from your seat, great IFE and connectivity. So for business class I’d say:

    - J seat with doors / privacy (like the Q-Suite)
    - comfortable seat with great ergonomics and materials, great bedding including mattress, at seat ventilation with (if possible) individual temperature control, personal lighting options, lots of personal storage options
    - true dine on demand (a la Qatar) so you can effectively structure the flight the way you want
    - healthy F&B options (like on PER-LHR) as part of a broader, comprehensive F&B offering with lots of options you can mix and match
    - a social space - Virgin’s 777 bar area works well and is a clever use of available space
    - high speed WiFi - good enough to stream your own content on Netflix
    - great on-board IFE options and screen

    It would probably end up similar to the Q-Suites with a few extra touches...

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  • Ross

    Ross

    26 Feb, 2019 09:19 pm

    A really good bed, comfortable, not lumpy, wide and space for your feet.

    Decent sized toilets so you don't have to perform yoga to use them for changing.

    Socialisation space, the EK and QR bars are perfect.

    Dine on demand - goes without saying.

    However, having said all that - I'm still not a fan of ultra long flights and now even avoid the 14hr DOH-MEL flights and choose to do the 8 + 8hr DOH-SIN-MEL with a break in SIN, but that is me...
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  • Balta  Caceres

    Aircraft Lover

    26 Feb, 2019 10:15 pm

    An ultra-long-haul airliner has to be comfortable in all cabins.

    For a 20+ hour flight, the body is prone to dehydration, jet-lag, and hypoxia.

    Reduced seat-pitch increases passengers stress, muscle pain and many other issues.

    Large, comfortable and updated aircraft toilets are a basic need.

    A Coffee Shop, serving high-quality coffee, teas, and fruit juice, in all cabins are perfect for a healthy stretch of the body


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  • Johnny9

    Johnny9

    26 Feb, 2019 11:20 pm

    An area where you can do push-ups, a handle bar for pull-ups and yoga mat to do sit-ups and stretches. Best prevention of DVT is to do some basic body weight exercises. This can be at lower deck (cargo area) w/o windows.

    Dine on demand with healthy, vegan and light options.

    Meditation, stretching excercise videos and educational podcasts. Wifi.

    Moisturising masks and amnesties including deodorant. Compression socks. PJs and slippers. This will get a lot of dislikes: limit Alcohol as it’s the worst when flying.


    Member who gave thanks

    tungaroa

  • Josh Kendrick

    banana0692

    26 Feb, 2019 11:40 pm

    A lot of great options listed here, my favorites would be.
    - A social space, VA do this really well for both Y+ and J on a 777. I really enjoy this space, I've spent hours here and met some really great people. If they can do it, it shouldn't be too hard on a 787 or similar.
    - Privacy door
    - Practical Ameneties kit incl Moister Mask
    - Dine on demand, with a comprehensive menu
    - Quality IFE offerings. I've noticed airlines have started to let IFE slide as more people start to BYO. Continue with recent movies that haven't made it to purchase yet. I really enjoyed this about flying getting to see some movies that just left (or still in) cinemas.
    - No foot cubby hole! Or at least make this fit even people with large feet.
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  • Brett77

    Brett77

    27 Feb, 2019 05:29 am

    What would i like to see? My own private 777 with a lap pool - But considering that Qantas 'is' a business and that project sunrise 'is' based on economics.................................
    First Class - 6 suites ala Emirates new 777, but, the weight needs to be taken into account so combining Emirates layout with Air France curtains (noise cancelling curtains?) may achieve the perfect balance. The current Business suite is fine - but Qantas would be wise to widen the seat and increase the pitch, a lightweight sliding door could be added for that exclusive feel and a switching the config to include 'double bed' options would be nice.
    As for the soft product - as many have mentioned the amenity kits need some serious 'luxing' up.
    But ultimately for me, personally, it's time for a conscious uncoupling with Mr Perry. It's been like 20 years - time for us to see other people ok. (the food is honestly dreadful in all classes, and yes i have flown all classes recently) Let's be honest to QF as they are in serious denial if they think the food is 'best in class'
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  • RR

    RR

    27 Feb, 2019 08:41 am

    There have been complaints about the Singapore long haul Singapore to New York service, as it seems they wake everyone up with lights on to do a meal service right in the middle of the flight. It makes it impossible for people to set their own schedule, and to get an extended sleep during any part of the flight.


    I am not sure why QF would also pursue First rather than an enhanced Business. My preference would be to have an enclosed seat with sliding doors, so that each can control their own light levels and peacefulness. With a discreet dine on demand service supplied to each without disturbing others.

    Also a separate bar area like those on Euro trains, which you could either stand or sit, and be served a meal/snack there rather than in your seat.

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  • Marcia Victoria Cavanagh

    Toria

    27 Feb, 2019 03:00 pm

    I would really appreciate a dedicated changing room. I hate getting into the Qantas pj’s in a toilet. A simple cubical with some shelves on which to place your items while you change and a sink to brush teeth and wash your face.
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  • Jason Hamilton

    JKH

    27 Feb, 2019 03:06 pm

    A stand-up bar area for milling and stretching that’s separate from galley or toilet spaces. It doesn’t need seats - the idea is to not be sitting for a while.

    The curtain idea could be very good if done well and would reduce unnecessary weight from additional walls/bulkheads.
    F/C seat/bed that is wide enough to sleep in different positions.
    No narrow foot wells that are not big enough for feet.
    The companion dining seat option.
    Dine on demand.
    Arrival lounge access for showering/freshening up.
    I know this is to be restricted to J and F only, but W needs better pitch and some rows of an Economy-X/Plus for payment.
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  • Karl Lofhjelm

    Bigtones

    27 Feb, 2019 03:29 pm

    Leg room is very important for us tall people so don’t have a foot cubby on the side like SQ has just done. Also wider seats & a proper bar to socialize as this makes the time pass fast.
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  • Neil Hansford

    Greensides1

    27 Feb, 2019 03:29 pm

    Time to keep real! Fewer seats, up go the prices! Need for more areas to change which doesn't necessarily mean it is a toilet with all the inherent plumbing. Lower deck would be ideal. Need for stand up bar area with snacks to break up the journey. In reality what is wrong with the current QF P and C seat areas unless you are over 2 metres tall.
    Reading the pieces ahead it won't be economically viable. Dont forget Business is where the money is made in the industry not first and certainly not in cattle class. Forget other than Express freight on these services to get the available weight allocated to the pax cabin.
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  • Tony Jacob

    tcjacob

    27 Feb, 2019 03:30 pm

    Given a few comments that upgrading B-class might make F-class less viable, why not do away with F-class - and improve B-class? Wonder if this mght also help save a bit of weight.
    Also, if such a long flight in Y-class is uninviting, why not do away with low-margin and squeezed Y-class altogether?
    So, have only B-class and PY-class - and make each better, more spacious, and yes: more + spacious toilets.
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  • John Shave

    johnshave

    27 Feb, 2019 03:37 pm

    Qantas, and other airlines and travel companies, need to start realising that baby boomers like myself and my wife are becoming luxury leisure travellers a lot more, and we aren't as young as we used to be. We are aged 60 and often go on holidays with my mother who is 90. It stuns us that travelling business class there is no difference between the business and economy toilets, and definitely not enough room if we have even the slightest mobility issues, like a sore knee.

    Businesses which don't realise that more and more older people are luxury travellers, and make at least some accommodations, will be left behind. We don't mean people who need major assistance on the plane, just making it a little easier to use facilities for those of us who aren't quite as young as we used to be.
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  • andyhui01

    andyhui01

    27 Feb, 2019 03:39 pm

    Play with the lighting to make them more segmented (Crew can control the ceiling lights for each indivudal seat). This is more important now as 20 hour flights mean everyone sleeps and wants to eat at different times.

    First step would be dine on demand ( or 2-3 different option, ie. stay in departing time zone, arrival time zone or just evenly spaced out). Once they work out who is dining when, they can adjust the mood lighting directly over the seat to suit that specific pax.

    It may not be perfect but with LEDs, the right lens to give the right intensity and the right colour/material on the walls/seats. I am sure they can almost light up individual seats without affecting the neighbouring passenger much.

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  • Joe

    Joe

    27 Feb, 2019 03:40 pm

    -Proper food, worthy of the F and J fares paid-No more cafe style rock pool rubbish
    -More than a very cheap pencil case amenity kit. Mouthwash and deodorant for J and F
    -Proper spacious lavs stocked with practical amenities
    -More sophisticated cabin crew service
    -Imagination employed to create a more modern sophisticated cabin in both F and J. Enough with boring, bland & less is more.
    -Proper hot / cold hand towels - not off cut paper thin rags.
    -Proper cloth hand drying towels in lavs not lint everywhere cheap paper towels
    -Lavs cleaned and up kept throughout flight
    -Properly sized PJ's!
    -Car service for all non-stop ports at both ends
    - Proper First Class cabin, food, alcohol and service. No more deluxe business class style 'First' considering most expensive F fares in industry are charged by Qantas!
    Member who gave thanks

    Concorde1990

  • parishiltons

    parishiltons

    27 Feb, 2019 03:59 pm

    Any bar/social area to be well away from the seats and properly acoustically isolated from seat areas.
    More toilets.
    Member who gave thanks

    Strange

  • Private Pilot

    Private Pilot

    27 Feb, 2019 04:28 pm

    If you've travelled on Emirates A380, you'll get the general idea of how comfortable a long haul flight can be...the bar at the back offers a social atmosphere, is quiet and away from sleeping passengers....Sydney to London via Dubai in this manner is perfect
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  • parishiltons

    parishiltons

    27 Feb, 2019 05:08 pm

    That sounds good for the A380 - but thinking of AusBT's recent review of the new Emirates B777 layout, the bar is between rows of J seats, and permanently illuminated. I would not want to be in any of the three rows behind, or the first couple of rows in front of that bar. It only takes one or two loud night owls to ruin any chance of sleep. And a B777 variant is one of the contenders for Sunrise, so I'm worried.
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  • parishiltons

    parishiltons

    27 Feb, 2019 04:01 pm

    Any bar/social area to be well away from the seats and properly acoustically and physically isolated from them.

    More toilets.
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  • M S

    Strange

    27 Feb, 2019 04:19 pm

    Simply must have more toilets... I'd read all the complaints about the 787 on PER/LHR sector, and thought surely it can't be that bad just one, but then I experienced it last month, and it's a joke! Was rarely available.
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  • Private Pilot

    Private Pilot

    27 Feb, 2019 04:23 pm

    Make the layout the same as Emirates' business class. Have high quality 'cocoons' and a bar area available for everyone to socialise. It's well established by the travelling public that Emirates has the best long distance formula by using A380 and the bar facility.
    I reckon the most comfortable set-up considering what's available, would be A350 aircraft with and Emirates business class layout.
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  • Adrian Granaghan

    tungaroa

    27 Feb, 2019 04:27 pm

    Sit/stand desk areas in quiet zones to get some work done while travelling with sufficient ports to charge laptops/ electronic devices.
    Sitting in a seat for any length of time, be it for relaxation or work, is detrimental to one's health.
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  • M S

    Strange

    27 Feb, 2019 04:29 pm

    - Big foot cubby
    - more toilets than 787
    - dine on demand
    - proper toilet paper rolls, not just tissues.
    - thick hand towels for drying hands in toilets, not just tissues
    - tissues as well!
    - compartments for shoes and laptops so can get set up before departure
    - classy sophisticated QR style cabin service
    - Room in the toilets to get changed into PJs without bashing the walls!
    - space to place your clothes while getting changed so they're not placed on the wet dirty toilet floor! Or a dedicated change room separate.
    - more privacy between middle seats, divider to close the whole space

    Will keep dreaming!!!
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  • alan burniston

    Notsinrub

    27 Feb, 2019 04:54 pm

    Something like upgraded pyjamas to travel in (not just for sleeping in) and decent slippers
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  • cow

    cow

    27 Feb, 2019 05:03 pm

    Having shower on Emirates A380, even on a shorter 7 hour flight leaves you feeling like heaven. If it's good for Emirates it should also be good for Qantas. The bar area good for a stretch and to socialize. But I hate the dine-on-demand, simply because the clatter of the cutlery and plate wake up others who are sleeping, or trying to sleep. The hours should be at least curtailed. However, any thoughts for those in economy? They deserve some comfort too.
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  • pbourke1961

    pbourke1961

    27 Feb, 2019 06:07 pm

    Qatar’s Q-Suite sets the standard. The answer is there. Same or better, if Joyce wants to raise the bar and set a new standard. Upgraded amenity kits given the length of the flights. A decent pair of Compression socks would be a good addition to the kit.
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  • groags

    groags

    27 Feb, 2019 06:17 pm

    The list, if anybody from QF is reading
    - a dedicated space for lounging, standing, walking, bar etc like EK. You can’t expect people to stay seated for 20 hours plus it is not healthy and you don’t want any health impacts on such a long flight!
    - a gym like space downstairs where you can do some body weight exercises, stretching, yoga etc.
    - flat bed berths downstairs, obviously you can’t have a lie flat bed for every passenger. That would be dream unless supersonic travel gets there first. It would likely be for premium, Y etc. who wish to pay, sort of like a time based service. The reality is that some people will need this to travel that long and will be prepared to pay for it vs the trade off of a stopover.
    - you have to increase pitch some on Y etc. Now I know everybody will say what about the economics, well make it as far as the economics will allow, even a small increase will make a difference to how people feel cooped up in a pressurised metal tube for 20 hours!
    - same goes with amenities kits, need to bump this up a notch and focus on wellness and hydration components
    - dine on demand - goes without saying, those that can sleep and manage to ‘escape’ a portion of such a long haul should not be woken up because it suits the flight crew, people need coping mechanisms and being able to influence your bodyclock/timing helps. The wellness food is great, the concept needs expanding/continuing
    - premium in its current format needs the legroom issue fixed plain and simple
    - IFE needs improved in terms of content and screen size, wifi will help but the trend towards BYO entertainment doesn’t work so well when your battery won’t last 20 hours on whatever device you happen to have
    - for the front end, F needs to be a suite of some sort, the quality of the J bed needs improving substantially, width/length, so these pax aren’t wanting to, or need to, use the flat beds under the cabin
    - the shower concept is interesting but the reality is that water = weight and weight = poor economics so cater for this by ensuring the departure lounge has showers and have an arrival lounge the same. You simply just don’t want a space with smelly humans all packed together for such a long period, it will just get a bit feral
    - Loos - the same goes for the smell, cleanliness etc. these have to be kept in tip top condition, over such a long flight they will get heavily used and nothing says chaos like smelly, blocked, non working toilets
    - larger toilets as well unless there is a dry change space with more room for everybody changing onto PJ’s, some will be happy to sit in their jeans for 20 plus hours, many will not

    There is probably other small details but these are the major ones that spring to me. If QF would like to get a pax focus group together then count me in as I definitely fit in the ‘there is no way you are getting me in that seat with those conditions for 20 hours’ club. The PER-LON in Y is a classic example.

    If you genuinally want to capture the whole market and be transformative then these are the sorts of changes you will have to make, you are pushing the limits of human endurance and the same old let’s cram those in that will take the chance and hope for the best approach just won’t work IMHO.
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  • michael blazewicz

    blaz

    27 Feb, 2019 06:43 pm

    Ok, this is just me, and my expectations are not very high, but what I want from a first class flight is a level of service that requires attendants to check how you are going, ask you if you need anything, and suggest things that I may be interested in...subtle, sincere and visible....if you need to press the call button, then they have probably failed...Business class is not that different, but the quality and space probably should be somewhat less, or why bother with first class at all? Wider bed, better food and wine and a streamlined entrance and exit ( for first)
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  • chap6595

    chap6595

    27 Feb, 2019 06:57 pm

    Dine on Demand.
    No member give thanks

  • Steve987

    Steve987

    27 Feb, 2019 07:13 pm

    Ideal state would be proper massage features built into the chairs to enhance circulation. Whether this is incorporated into every seat or if, for weight reasons, there can only be a bank of six or so that need to be booked, this would be ideal.

    The other feature (slightly OT I acknowledge) is more business and first class seats and fewer economy/PE! Surely part of the premium offer here is the fact that you don’t have to stop, so why not just tie that into premium seats.

    I can definitely see the benefit of a future where A380 are almost exclusively economy for hub to hub travel complemented by regional jets (330/737 etc) and ULR jets are almost exclusively F/J and used for point to point.
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  • Melissa Melissa Robinson

    FlightyTemptress

    27 Feb, 2019 07:28 pm

    I would like serviceable but breathable fabrics in the seating and bedding options. Nothing worse than clingy sweaty fabrics. Natural would be nice ... but practical?
    In the absence of an enclose business suite for each passenger, it would be lovely to be able to change from clothes into PJs and back again in something other than a toilet. Bare feet and a toilet that has been in service for 16 hours is not a happy combo.
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  • auspointer

    auspointer

    27 Feb, 2019 07:44 pm

    Given this is such a long flight - showers for first, dine on demand, separate bar/social area for f and biz, enclosed much larger suites for f (including option for doubles), q suite grade spaces for biz. Then there would be a truly competitive product.
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  • David White

    davidW

    27 Feb, 2019 08:02 pm

    Three things:
    • more and better spacial toilets which cater for 22 hours in the air - I mean for 40 years I have avoided as much as possible ablutions in the air!
    • best experiences I ever had was late 60s early 70s with PanAm's original 747s with a separate dining facility where you could dine upstairs with other passengers - could this be done in cargo hold area - a bit like an ocean liner?
    • for that distance the Qatar style of business class doors are essential IMHO the cabin will be abuzz at all hours - regimented time goes out the door - space becomes paramount to comfort and the Qatar centre 4 pods into one space for a family is great design.
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  • fxdxdy

    fxdxdy

    27 Feb, 2019 08:04 pm

    I know you're supposed to lay off the coffee on long flights but if you're going to offer coffee then I'd like espresso coffee. I'm not expecting a full on barista machine but I'll settle for Nespresso capsules. It would also be good if they made an espresso machine available at a self service bar and another one else where so espresso can be served with your meal (and as back up).
    I think Virgin already have espresso machines on their planes don't they?
    Also, I hear the water tanks on aircraft aren't regularly cleaned so they can be a source for nasty bugs so I'd be cool with seeing the espresso machine's being topped up from bottled water :)
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  • John Goss

    Travelwell

    27 Feb, 2019 08:32 pm

    20+ hours I personally feel will be a failure as this concept pleases the same bean counters that want the A380 gone. Downstairs in cargo bay area a couple of treadmills and exercise bikes, speed and time limited so passengers don't work up a sweat as showers will not be on board. Social areas however once again harder as its not the A380. Higher cabin pressure is a plus and the humidifiers must be worlds best. Mmm how about I suggest a stop over. Lol
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  • John Goss

    Travelwell

    27 Feb, 2019 08:36 pm

    oh yes and the Entertainment system must outdo Emirates' ICE system. Might not worry about suites in F and privacy screens in J as 20+ hours in the air will get lonely.
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  • Jedinak K

    Jedinak K

    27 Feb, 2019 10:25 pm

    Hard to top Emirates's IFE entertainment as it tailors to a worldwide audience, whilst QF tailors more to Australian audiences. There's only so much Hollywood/classics that you can put in.
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  • Rhonda

    rhondaB

    27 Feb, 2019 08:57 pm

    Echoing others, here's my quick list:
    * A separate change area, with a washbasin for cleaning teeth, mirror for makeup, tissues, lotions etc. but NO toilet. Changing in the toilets, even in F, just sucks.
    * Super comfy lie-flat seats/beds a la your home recliner (I can sleep in that, but not the aircraft seats, even in F). Perhaps use breathable leather (not fake leather as you'll stick to it), which has to be easier to keep clean than fabric
    * Space -- more headroom when getting out of your seat (though overhead lockers that are too high don't work for those who are already height-challenged), decent size storage bins for gear/toiletries bag etc., ease of access to carry-on bag without disturbing others (so quiet, soft-closing overhead bins). Perhaps do away with the shared overhead bins in F altogether and have a suite that includes your own storage locker for your stuff -- hanger for jacket, place for carry-on, etc.
    * More toilets and larger (if no dedicated change/wash room), and spotlessly clean; perhaps some downstairs?
    * Separate the toilet area(s) from the galley
    * Lounge access (with showers) on arrival
    * Larger size PJs
    * Space to stretch, move around, socialise (if you choose)
    * If rooms, consider sound-proof curtains if there is such a thing -- less weight than walls, but still offer privacy and help block out other noises from the cabin

    All this assumes excellent service, excellent food (please, no more weeds touted as 'salad'), and spotlessly clean in all areas (don't look too closely at the gaps around the seat in F... it's pretty gross)
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  • Aidan

    Aidan

    27 Feb, 2019 10:10 pm

    Simple innovative solution is put a bar / social area in a small section in the downstairs part.
    This will leave premium cabins quiet 🤫 , for sleeping.
    Night owls free to make some noise.
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  • Ladtsmt

    Ladtsmt

    27 Feb, 2019 10:23 pm

    Is there a little 'pie in the sky' (pun intended) when considering 20+ hours in a little 787, projected from 2022? Maybe a 777 can travel the same routes for that time, but the A380 is a no go.
     
    I've never travelled in the first class cabin so can't comment on the facilities needed, but in the small 787 where will be the space for this section additional to business, premium economy and economy? Will there be a cut back in numbers of seats in these sections, and if so in which one(s)?
     
    My concern is the very low 'flat beds' in business. When fully reclined they're too close to the floor. The miniscule dust that's raised as people walk down the aisles passengers have to breathe. It's not healthy so maybe some sort of mask could be part of the wash pack. The 'beds' are also uncomfortable for people, mainly men, over 6 feet tall. Have flat beds, but when fully reclined, have them higher off the floor.
     
    Again, in the little 787, where will there be space for a bar and/or entertainment/socialising area if there's the introduction of a first class cabin? Dare I be so bold as to comment that with all these additions, how profitable will these 20+ hour routes be?
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  • harry77

    harry77

    27 Feb, 2019 10:34 pm

    An arrival and departure schedule that best suits business travellers, avoiding where possible wasted business hours trudging from Manhattan to JFK or vice versa.
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  • Razzle

    Razzle

    28 Feb, 2019 12:08 am

    I'm a huge fan of Qantas, travel +150K miles per year mainly QF and normally in Business Class, so my comments below are definitely from the constructive camp :)
    Most QF business class seats allow you to get horizontal, but not 100% flat as each section of the seats are at slightly different angles. The "mattress" is too thin to mask this, so personally I find it difficult to sleep. Getting 100% flat, with a thicker mattress (like AirNZ) would make a huge difference. I find Emirates a bit tacky to be honest, but the couch area at the front of bus class next to the stairs is nice to visit and stretch, work, read a book... and the bar area at the back also gives a break from your allocated seat. I have two "big ideas" that would really set Qantas apart - having showers for Business Class and a roller shutter to enclose your bed when sleeping. Some carriers already have showers for First Class and in my opinion the rooms are unnecessarily large. A smaller shower room with 5-min timer, plus separate change room would help manage Bus Class volume. The change room could also be used for getting in and out of your PJ's, rather than everyone using the toilet even if you don't need to go. The roller shutter idea would mean that when you go to sleep you can enclose yourself (think Japanese pod hotel conceptually, Tambour storage unit for design) which would help reduce noise, light, disruption from passers-by and make for a good nights sleep.
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  • Marks2

    Marks2

    28 Feb, 2019 12:50 am

    Toilets. As those who have initially travelled from Perth on the 787 have found, the longer flights mean much more demand for toilets. That means pressure to keep them clean, and queues. Queueing for cramped dirty toilets is not a premium experience. This is easy to discount in design, because toilets aren't as sexy as seats or meals. However, on a long flight when you want to "go" and there's a queue, there's a certain "never again" feeling.
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  • Anna80

    Anna80

    28 Feb, 2019 08:47 am

    I'm in agreement with so many of the suggestions here, such as a more spacious business class, a special amenity kit created around these long-haul flights and dine-on-demand. From the perspective of a female traveller I'd like to add my vote for larger toilets with more space for changing clothes, and other thoughtful aspects like more shelving for unpacking your own toiletries, and better LED lighting around the mirror for touching up your makeup. Maybe even a decent hair dryer for a quick blowout before landing.
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  • Gary Topping

    Toptravel

    28 Feb, 2019 09:07 am

    Q suite like Qatar, lounge area with sitting area along with stand up area. Larger bathrooms, Dine on Demand. Doors on both F/C and J/C.
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  • bl812

    bl812

    28 Feb, 2019 09:25 am

    similar size toilets like Etihad has on it's 787 for business class -Qatar style private cubicles-Ek-style bars on 380's-Singapore style book the cook--so all that Alan Joyce should do- go to the rivals and learn something useful from them!
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  • bl812

    bl812

    28 Feb, 2019 09:29 am

    EY 787 style toilets-EK style bars-QR style cubicles-SQ style book the cook options....the good stuff is already out just try to copy them!
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  • Pay my own way

    Pay my own way

    28 Feb, 2019 09:43 am

    More (and larger) lavatories. Ensuring they are clean at all times.
    Food suitable for ultra-long flights.
    Area for socialising,
    More consistency in service standards.
    Ensuring that other customers are not disturbed by dine on demand service.
    No member give thanks

  • John Swainston

    OzjohnS

    28 Feb, 2019 01:23 pm

    Larger toilet not against window that makes crouching necessary for anyone over 178cm. (A380 problem especially.)
    As someone who has to treat and prevent a DVT recurring, enough space in the hold to enable 10 minute active flexing/movement exercise without disturbing sleepers. My doctors say 10 minutes vigorous movement every three to four hours is the best preventive. Meanwhile, Clexane injections still required.
    The present seat in A330/787-9 is very flat and unsupportive as a seat, and does not have the midrift upturn that the A380 Classic flat sleeper has. (Cost reduction!) While the lack of working space and storage in the Marc Newson design is a huge disadvantage, the lack of any sculpting and placement of the current head support in A330 and 787 for a 183cm passenger is really very poor ergonomics indeed. Not even particularly good for Computer work. There is no sculpting at all. The seat belt to wear throughout the flight should not be sash, but option of waist only as per early A330 Business.
    I have no complaint about Qantas service; a 21 hour flight will be tough for all - passengers and crew alike. Just make sure the best sleepers are for flying crew so they really can rest.
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  • gopal

    gopal

    28 Feb, 2019 01:47 pm

    These days many children fly business, and many business passanger expect to have a quiet seat as part of the deal. Therefore, a sound proof kids play area with hygenic nappy change facilities is a must on ultra long flights. This could be combined with the adult stretch and DVT prophylaxis area. It is important to provide opportunities to move, expedite energy and get the circulation flowing. Soft climbing equipment, simple treadmills ect. Do not place any TV screens or soft drinks in the area. In other words, the exact opposite of the new quantas lounge in Melbourne. DM drugstores in Germany have excellent facilities, which are very compact and safe - check them out and ask their designer to help.

    The seats should be easily changeable from sleeping to sitting position, and offer trendellenburg position. No matress is OK, if there is a matress it should be easy to remove, store and retrieve it, same applies to blankets and pillows.

    A pillow menu would be good, most pillows are too big for use as a headrest in. The sitting position.



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  • worldwanderer

    worldwanderer

    1 Mar, 2019 12:07 am

    1. Ensure every decisionmaker has travelled on J and F on the current top 5 market offerings.

    2. Maximise the main deck seating arrangements to get the required returns and move to best in class seat designs

    a. Find designs that improve privacy without too much additional weight

    b. Avoid foot cubbies totally

    c. Power/USB ports put in places where I don’t have to be a contortionist to reach them or have a cord draped across the width/length of my space – i.e. so I can go to the toilet without stowing.

    3. Move to the lower deck the "space consuming" and “movement” areas & larger or non-uniform sized things:

    a. Modules (centrally located to reduce curvature and create walking aisles either side for exercise) such as additional slightly larger toilets and also 2-3 pyjama changing rooms with handbasin that can also be used as baby changing areas for all classes

    b. Definitely more toilets, the longer the flight, the less the ability to “hold on until arrival”

    c. Social Area – perhaps less emphasis on alcohol – more a stand up “coffee shop with juices, fruit & snacks”

    d. Self help snacks and drinks cabinet similar to A380 to reduce staff loading and give reason for passengers to “move”

    e. A couple of pull-up handles to do a few loadbearing lifts/exercises as well as walking

    f. Adequate sound proofing between decks

    g. Adequate sound proofing between the individual classes on main deck

    4. Continue evolution of current good work on food research for long distance flights

    a. Add dine on demand for premium classes

    b. Ditch 3 course meal mentality and introduce a varied list of healthy smaller sized offerings. If you are hungry ask for additional dishes.

    c. Change lead chef and get away from tasteless bowls of leaves purporting to be a “salad”

    5. Water is too heavy for onboard showers, so provide arrival lounges where premium passengers can shower, shave, press/change their clothes, etc before heading off.

    6. Crew structure rethink to allow for dedicated cleaning staff throughout the flight.

    7. Pressure the engineers to improve even more the humidity of the air and changeover cycles to reduce fatigue and jet-lag without significantly driving up fuel costs

    8. Supply headsets that are able to drown out cabin noise but at the same time be very comfortable to wear while sleeping/resting in various positions


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  • fxdxdy

    fxdxdy

    10 Mar, 2019 02:15 pm

    Dan from Djs Aviation which is on YouTube might have the scoop of the week. He was at the Avalon airshow and talking to some Qantas pilots who related to him that Qantas is going with the A350-1000ULR. So, unless there is a change in circumstance I guess that is what we'll be seeing. But even then an official announcement isn't planned until much later this year so there is a lot of water that has to pass under the bridge between now and then.
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20 May, 2019 10:58 am

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