Qantas to buy Boeing 787, first flights from 2017

Qantas to buy Boeing 787, first flights from 2017

UPDATE | Qantas' Boeing 787 Dreamliners will offer business class, premium economy and economy, the airline has confirmed.

Its first international route will also be one that's currently operated by the Boeing 747, although there are no hints yet as to which route or even destination that will be.

Come early 2017, the first new international route for the Dreamliner will also be announced, with Melbourne-Dallas, Sydney-Chicago and Perth-London all up for consideration.

Continue reading: Qantas reveals Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner seating, configuration

PREVIOUS | Qantas will add the Boeing 787 to its international fleet, confirming an order for eight of the next-generation jets with first flights slated for October 2017.

Four of the fuel-efficient Boeing 787-9s will be delivered in the 2017-2018 financial year, with the next four from 2018-2019.

The Dreamliners will replace five Boeing 747s and also be used to launch new international destinations.

Qantas CEO Alan Joyce cited Melbourne to Dallas/Forth Worth as a potential Boeing 787 route.

"Obviously a market like Melbourne to Dallas opens up as an opportunity for us" Joyce suggested as an example of "long-range routes we don't fly today."

Also on the list are "routes that have low levels of traffic that don't justify a Boeing 747, and routes that are less frequent which we want to get to daily."

"Because the 787 is smaller than the jumbos it will gradually replace, it gives us the flexibility of having more aircraft without significantly changing our overall capacity."

Qantas' initial Boeing 787 order includes three aircraft previously pencilled in for Jetstar, which have been converted from the smaller 787-8 to the larger and longer-range 787-9.

Qantas still has 15 purchase options and 30 purchase rights up its sleeve "and eventually the rest of the Boeing 747s and Airbus A330s will be replaced" Joyce confirmed during the airline's FY15 briefing in Sydney this morning, where he reported a near-$1 billion profit.

"But it depends on the performance of the group, like anything," Joyce added, allowing that Qantas has "significant flexibility over the timing of delivery should they be exercised."

Inside the Qantas Boeing 787-9

Qantas promises its Dreamliners will have "world-leading cabin interiors", and each of the red-tailed Boeing 787s will be fitted with "approximately 250 seats" in a three-class layout.

Joyce has previously confirmed to Australian Business Traveller that the 787-9s would sport the airline's latest Business Suite (below) at the pointy end, although with delivery some two years out this could be an improved version of the same design.

This would be followed by premium economy and economy cabins, with the later expected to see a 3-3-3 seating layout.

Read: Qantas Boeing 787 will be three-class, likely 9-across in economy

Qantas recently took a second look at the Airbus A350 as part of its future fleet but decided to stick with the Boeing 787-9. 

"We looked at both types of aircraft, on what the relative positions of the A350 and Boeing 787 were" admitted Qantas CEO Alan Joyce at the recent CAPA 2015 Australia Pacific Aviation Summit in Sydney, "and we found on all accounts the 787-9 was the better aircraft for us, for the market that we're talking about and the network that we're talking about."

Long road to the Red Roo's Dreamliner

Qantas was among the first airlines to sign on the dotted line for Boeing's 787, placing a staggering order for up to 115 Dreamliners in December 2005 for delivery beginning in mid-2008. 

A series of delays pushed the Dreamliner's debut back to October 2011, with Jetstar seeing its first Boeing 787-8 in October 2013.

Qantas also trimmed its order to a combination of 20 jets with guaranteed delivery from late 2017, with a further 30 'purchase rights' lacking a fixed hand-over timeframe.

Follow Australian Business Traveller on Twitter: we're @AusBT

 

94 Comments

  • Jason Bird

    Speedbird

    20 Aug, 2015 08:52 am

    What a disaster for economy passengers 

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  • mg391

    mg391

    20 Aug, 2015 09:24 am

    Why do you say that?

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  • AJW

    AJW

    20 Aug, 2015 11:19 am

    Ever been down the back of a 787? Not nice at all in the 9 abrest config. As I read someone write elsewhere, it is like being in a 737 but for long haul, yet here in Aus people complain about being in a 737 transcon.

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  • Himeno

    Himeno

    20 Aug, 2015 04:22 pm

    The only thing I don't like about the 787 is the window tint system.

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  • Christopher Campbell

    Chris2304

    20 Aug, 2015 09:06 am

    please either 2-4-2 economy or 3-3-3 cozy suite economy an dpremium eceonomy

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  • StudiodeKadent

    StudiodeKadent

    20 Aug, 2015 12:52 pm

    I have no idea why this got downvoted, but I think its unlikely QF will do 2-4-2 economy. QF want a capacity of 275 in their Dreamliners and cannot achieve that at an 8-across layout without removing Premium Economy entirely.

    That said, if they use Cozy Suite economy, they can easily reach the same 19" seat width Boeing intended for the Dreamliner, and at the same time hit their capacity target of 275 with a Premium Economy cabin.

    Given that their business class seat is made by the same company that makes the Cozy Suite, I think there's a chance QF will go for it. It would certainly be a good way to assert competitiveness against Singapore/Cathay/ANA/JAL, and it would absolutely put Qatar, Emirates and Etihad to shame.

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  • Himeno

    Himeno

    20 Aug, 2015 03:54 pm

    Where are you getting this 275 seat target from?

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  • StudiodeKadent

    StudiodeKadent

    20 Aug, 2015 07:32 pm

    I saw on the airliners.net forum that before the GFC, QF wanted 275 people on the Dreamliners.

    I fully admit this isn't official but I'm using it as a rough guideline.

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  • Himeno

    Himeno

    20 Aug, 2015 09:16 pm

    There are media stories floating around quoting Alan Joyce as saying 250.

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  • StudiodeKadent

    StudiodeKadent

    20 Aug, 2015 10:52 pm

    I only recently saw those stories. If that's the case then my target assumptions were wrong. However, that doesn't undermine the case for a Thompson CozySuite Economy product. It would be far less painful than standard 3-3-3 hell-riding.

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  • AWA2602

    AWA2602

    20 Aug, 2015 09:22 am

    The omission of Premium Economy would be a traversty, especially as these will replace B747's.

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  • AJW

    AJW

    20 Aug, 2015 11:21 am

    Yeah would be madness, especially seeing as you point out these are replacements for the most part for 747's on long haul routes, not A330's within Asia. They can (just) get away with no premium within Asia, but long haul would be madness.

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  • F-Flyer

    F-Flyer

    20 Aug, 2015 09:23 am

    Why did AJ not order more? Thouhg this is a great day for Qantas.

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  • undertheradar

    undertheradar

    20 Aug, 2015 09:28 am

    READ the WHOLE report

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  • chap6595

    chap6595

    20 Aug, 2015 09:49 am

    I wonder why they only exercised 8 of the planes and not the full 53 rights, repalce the 747's and the A330's over the next 5-10 years? Surely haveing Three Planes B787, A380, and B737 would be a cost saving measure? I am sureprised that only 8 where taken.

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  • Jedinak K

    Jedinak K

    20 Aug, 2015 10:35 am

    Couple of reasons. Main priority is to pay back the debt and stakeholders and improve credit rating. No airline in the world is able to afford 53 long haul aircraft straight out of their bank accounts. They have been given flexibility so they are able to get more when they choose to.

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  • AJW

    AJW

    20 Aug, 2015 11:24 am

    The A330's don't need replacing. They are at the point in their economical life where they are earning the most and really on routes to/from Asia the fuel effeciency of the 787 is not that great when you factor in capital cost etc. But as 747 replacements long haul, different matter.

    As for fleet economies, Qantas has enough A330's to justifty the fleet so no great economies from changing to a different type.

    Likewise Qantas with 8 and JQ with 9 787's also makes a resonable fleet to justify.

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  • JoeA350

    JoeA350

    20 Aug, 2015 11:55 am

    I 100% agree with you AJW.

    The A330 is the right fit aircraft for medium-long haul and the economics of deploying a B787 to Asia does not work.

    I would add, some of the older A330 aircraft could be replaced with the A330NEO soon to be released. This aircraft will be able to maintain crews, tooling, procedures and maintenance costs.

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  • StudiodeKadent

    StudiodeKadent

    20 Aug, 2015 01:01 pm

    I presume the A330s aren't going to be replaced for several years.

    The DL's will first be used to phase out the 747s and expand very-long-haul services. Only after the 747s are phased out will the DL be introduced on non-Haneda Asian routes (I'd presume non-Haneda Japanese routes first since the Japanese routes are the longest Asian routes QF have, plus JAL being a Oneworld member and there being significant tourist traffic between Japan and Oz).

    The A330s will be around for a long time. They aren't going to be replaced immediately.

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  • Himeno

    Himeno

    20 Aug, 2015 04:00 pm

    The oldest A330s in the Qantas Fleet arrived in 2002. The newest in 2012. They don't need to think about ordering replacements until 2020 for deliveries starting around 2026.

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  • Broderick Boyd

    brobro

    20 Aug, 2015 09:55 am

    If I can get a direct flight to Seattle or Moscow.......Im yours Qantas haha

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  • papermate92

    papermate92

    20 Aug, 2015 10:05 am

    It would be a shame if Qantas were to make Premium Economy an exclusive to the A380.

    If British Airways and Japan Airlines can have Premium Economy on their 787's there's no reasonable excuse for Qantas not to have it.

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  • DB

    aussieboyaussie

    20 Aug, 2015 01:58 pm

    Yes we definitely want PE on these birds.

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  • GregXL

    GregXL

    20 Aug, 2015 10:14 am

    If 5 747s are to be replaced does that mean the 2 non-refurb aircraft will now stay in the fleet until the first 787 delivery ?  Then there would be 6 747-400ERs remaining .

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  • Christopher Campbell

    Chris2304

    20 Aug, 2015 10:18 am

    http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/about/investors/2015InvestorPresentationSupplementary.pdf

    On page 15 its says that 1 B747 is leaving in FY16? So i dont know how 5 will remain once the older 5 retire from 2017. Unless the 1 747 retiring this year is part of the 5. 

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  • GregXL

    GregXL

    20 Aug, 2015 11:52 am

    Qantas's news room items says "This will leave the Qantas Group with its six youngest reconfigured B747s".  So the five are those listed by moa999, but maybe OEB and OJM will still go before the first 787 arrives.  QF have not said it is a one-for-one process.

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  • moa999

    moa999

    20 Aug, 2015 10:32 am

    That was how I read it - which means that the SkyBed I equipped OEB and OJM hang around until late 2017 (unless of course you get the old F seats).

    Also have the old Rockwell Collins IFE.

    Should have been refurbed along with OJS, OJT, OJU which will now be retired about the same time.

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  • Alex_Flynnagan

    Alex_Flynnagan

    20 Aug, 2015 10:15 am

    Anybody want to put their guesses for the first 787-9 routes?

    Mine would be a daily service between Sydney - Santiago or Sydney - Johannesburg? Possible new route Sydney - Vancouver (all year round) or Sydney - Seoul / Beijing. I don't know maybe I'm dreaming but hopefully 3 class layout with 2-4-2 in economy *fingers crossed*

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  • flyingisthebest

    flyingisthebest

    20 Aug, 2015 10:30 am

    BNE-LAX to make 10 weekly or double daily?

    SYD-SCL make that daily

    SYD-JNB make it daily

    BNE-DFW, was wildly successful (From a connection point of view) when QF 8 stopped over at BNE with the 747

    MEL-LAX (Make  the 2nd daily flight daily)

    SYD-SFO Make it Daily

    BNE-DXB-TXL? Currently BNE is the largest port in Australia with no direct midnight/2am flight from DXB. (Perth has one OMG LOL) EK 432/433 goes via SIN... As well TXL is a port EK has no rights to fly to but want to, so their biffl might be handy.

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  • jwilson

    jwilson

    20 Aug, 2015 10:47 am

    I'd assume the 8 787s will replace the 747-400s on a one to one basis with the extra 3 787s to increase frequencies.

    I'd almost certainly say the 787s will have Premium Economy as they are replacing the 747s. 

    Also expect to see 9 abreast in economy just as every other carrier has configured their 787 aircraft (apart from JAL ANA)

    The width of Qantas A330 economy seats are 17 whilst 787s come in at 17.5. (Seat Guru)

    Cheers :)

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  • T L

    Kitch

    20 Aug, 2015 10:51 am

    BNE-LAX-JFK 

    MEL-LAX Daily second

    MEL-DFW 6times a week or so.

    PER- JNB it would be better then from Sydney 

    PER, BNE via DXB to BCN FCO respectively 

    And MEL OR SYD to Santiago then to Rio

    Also they should purchase a couple off 777-9

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  • Sim1

    Sim1

    20 Aug, 2015 10:49 am

    Or maybe they can do

    Sydney to say... sydney... then turn it around and go Sydney to sydney.

    Then to mix it up sydney to sydney via sydney.

    Not everyone lives in sydney!

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  • T L

    Kitch

    20 Aug, 2015 10:52 am

    I know, what about flights from Perth, or adeliade and Melbourne 

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  • T L

    Kitch

    20 Aug, 2015 10:53 am

    What about flights to India or Malaysia

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  • Sim1

    Sim1

    20 Aug, 2015 10:56 am

    Missed brisbane to be fair :)

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  • Nick  Sydney 348

    Nick Sydney 2

    20 Aug, 2015 06:54 pm

    @sim... You mean there is more to Australia than Sydney?  

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  • Fonga

    Fonga

    20 Aug, 2015 11:37 am

    AJ will want to consolidate routes that are already working for them. So all the current 747 legs will be replaced with a 787-9, and as he said, those that are not quite daily, will go daily. That will soak up some of the new capacity. It will also make some legs that currently don't justify the size of a 747 on regular basis more viable with a smaller more efficient aircraft eg. Sydney-Vancouver & Sydney-San Francisco.

    After that, I am sure they have done the sums on what new sectors will pay off for them. Melbourne to Dallas seems a no-brainer, although that sets up a choice between the new business suites on the 787 from Melbourne v the Skybed II on the A380 out of Sydney! Seoul is a market they have probably been eyeing for a long time. Otherwise Brisbane and Perth will probably get a little loving, particularly with direct flights to Dubai.

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  • gazzaoak

    gazzaoak

    22 Aug, 2015 09:57 pm

    I could see them bring back routes which were canceled in the past, such as ICN or PEK

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  • Yohy

    Yohy

    20 Aug, 2015 10:43 am

    cant say id be in a hurry to jump on a 789 flight to SCL or CPT with all the mechanical issues that came with the launch, could probably do with a few more years of bedding down the type.

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  • Harry Carr

    harrycarr6

    20 Aug, 2015 10:47 am

    Am I the only one that thinks the Qantas livery doesn't look as good on the 787?

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  • moa999

    moa999

    20 Aug, 2015 11:28 am

    The 6 747-400ERs will be with us for a while yet (2002/2003 deliveries)

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  • princess fiona

    princess fiona

    20 Aug, 2015 10:52 am

    Excellent news. Will be very sad to see the 747 go but more for nostalgic reasons than logical ones.

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  • Andrew Gunn

    _andrewgunn_

    20 Aug, 2015 10:52 am

    Mexico, Ethiopia and Russia

    Wow.

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  • JoeA350

    JoeA350

    20 Aug, 2015 11:07 am

    Yes, I agree. Moscow is a must!

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  • AARON EISENBERG

    eisen100

    20 Aug, 2015 12:21 pm

    For Qantas and alike only international destinations that Australia has enough trade and business with i.e. can carry enough business travellers and cargo, can justify financially a new route.

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  • JoeA350

    JoeA350

    20 Aug, 2015 10:57 am

    Sydney - Beirut is a must, even if only seasonal.

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  • CityRail

    CityRail

    20 Aug, 2015 10:58 am

    I hope these B789s can first replace aging B744 on HKG-SYD service. B744 is too large for this sector when their direct competitor is doing 3x daily using smaller A330-300 aircrafts (and B777-300ER aircrafts once daily). With B789, Qantas can increase HKG-SYD back to 2x daily and SIN-SYD to perhaps 3x daily.

    Moreover, B744 is too noisy and are too old which means they can easily have issues and hence affect reliability of service. (From 8/8/2015 - 12/8/2015 QF127/128 has been delayed by more than 12 hours daily due to their fleet of rubbish B744s deployed on this route). I believe B789 will be a safer aircraft being more reliable hence we will see less of major delays like this, or even see a hole in the fuselage like what we seen on QF30.

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  • Cameron Hocking

    blingwad

    20 Aug, 2015 11:03 am

    I read in the afr that they will be going 9 across in economy. And they suggested Melbourne Dallas in the media conference today, that would be good. 

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  • anthony watts

    anthony watts

    20 Aug, 2015 11:58 am

    yes MEL-DFW  would be wonderful - just fancy avoiding both LAX and SYD on a flight to the  US!! nothing better than having a fantasy come true!

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  • anthony watts

    anthony watts

    20 Aug, 2015 11:39 am

    seeing as everone else is having their "wish list" - what about darwin - london non stop ? go on! just once a week to humour us who live closer to about every meaningful destination but who, unless you take Jetstar (economy only), entails flying 4 hours in the wrong direction!

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  • Travelator

    travelator

    20 Aug, 2015 11:47 am

    I wonder who the first B787 will be named after. I'm guessing not Geoff Dixon.

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  • maabbot

    maabbot

    20 Aug, 2015 12:44 pm

    How does ETOPS work for the 787?  To me Syd-Per-JNB makes a lot of sense.  I also thought the range of the 7879 allowed non stop Per-London and Darwin-London feasible...worth a thought.  Be nice for the smaller size of the aircraft to open up some routes other than Sydney...Sydney...and more Sydney...albeit an order of 8 aircraft hardly increases fleet capacity with retirements.

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  • Himeno

    Himeno

    20 Aug, 2015 04:04 pm

    Until CASA decides to allow more then ETOPS 180 for Australian carriers, it doesn't.

    Until such time as CASA allows QF to use ETOPS 330, a 2 engine aircraft can not to the southern South America or southern Africa routes without major detours.

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  • AJW

    AJW

    20 Aug, 2015 06:39 pm

    Anything to London in a 787 is not fesible simply because of slot constraints in London. Qantas makes more money leasing half their slots to other customers than actually flying there. The only keep the 2 they do for the presteige of flights to London, nothing more.

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  • StudiodeKadent

    StudiodeKadent

    20 Aug, 2015 12:45 pm

    I think that illustrated range is a little bit of an overstatement considering Boeing recently revised the 787-9's maximum range down... but the 787-9 can still generally do everything QF need (I'm skeptical about it being able to do Melbourne-Dallas though... unless that flight goes via BNE or they reduce the passenger numbers).

    But yeah, it seems pretty obvious that the first Dreamliners are earmarked for replacing the 747s. SYD-SFO, SYD-Santiago, SYD-Johannesberg, BNE-LAX-JFK will get Dreamliner'd ASAP.

    I guess we'll see some other longhaul services added. BNE-DXB (perhaps Emirates will cancel one of their 777 services and codeshare with QF?) seems a no-brainer, perhaps with an onward flight to a continental European destination? QF would benefit from re-establishing its European presence.

    Obviously the Dreamliners won't be used to replace A330s right now. That'll happen in 5 to 10 years time. I'd suspect the first Asian routes to be DL'd will be the Japanese ones (since the flights are 10hrs).  A330s will do South East Asian and Transcontinental services for the time being and get replaced when they're getting long in the tooth.

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  • AlexT

    AlexT

    20 Aug, 2015 01:37 pm

    Yay! Finally!

    I think Qantas could be more ambitious than 8 orders, but nevertheless it's good news.

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  • patrickk

    patrickk

    20 Aug, 2015 04:09 pm

    Alex,

    I think you will find it the orders are there for 15 more it is just this way QF decides the delivery dates. I suspect there will be a few more in 2019 or 2020. Four a year seems managable; and this way makes perfect sense. They have a lot of delivery slots for 23 (it seems 8+15) and you firm them up a couple of years out.  They will end up with around 30 787s including some (10-15) 787-10s replacing the 333s for Asia and then maybe a A35-1000 or 779 for larger capacity long range later on.

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  • AlexT

    AlexT

    20 Aug, 2015 06:20 pm

    patrickk,

    I know that they will sooner or later they must make another order for the B787s, but since they are going to do it anyway, why not sooner? The B747s are well overdue for retirement, and by then I think the fuel prices would go up.

    This is just my prediction, but the recent sale of the Sydney Airport Terminal 3 might be just to pay the debt down - which Qantas should be able to manage while buying B787s at the same time.

    I agree with you that Qantas might make an order for the B777X later on, and possibly start take delivery of it 10+ years from now when the A380 aircraft are ready for retirement. The A350-1000 is less likely though, because fleet consistency matters to keep costs low.

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  • patrickk

    patrickk

    21 Aug, 2015 08:11 am

    Alex there are also cash flow reasons. When you firm them up you pay another installment so why pay early. The price is fixed the slots are fixed so four  a year seems fine and firm each four up two or so years out, and if things (loads) slow then slow down the order rate.

    I suspect they may take the A380NEO (and A350-1000) in the later 2020s for the routes it is currently on which suit 400-500+ seat capacity.

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  • Chris_PER

    Chris_PER

    20 Aug, 2015 01:40 pm

    I can only see Qantas going daily on PER-AKL with the 789.  Not much/anything else.  Too many seats on the PER-Middle East routes.  Maybe twice/three weekly to Tokyo.

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  • Sim1

    Sim1

    20 Aug, 2015 04:08 pm

    maybe if the Perth - Singapore route grows a bit more?

    see they are going daily for a bit

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  • Shoudy Chen

    Shoudy Chen

    20 Aug, 2015 05:15 pm

    QF could compete with NZ with the 789 from PER-AKL in terms of the demand, and the profitablity. But yes, I would certainly back up your opinion there Chris_PER with Tokyo!

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  • Jono

    Jono

    20 Aug, 2015 02:28 pm

    Just cause it won’t let me upvote the original poster’s (Sim1) comment more than once. I’ll say it again here: There are more destinations the Sydney!

    They also suggested Sydney to Sydney. Or maybe twice daily Sydney to…. Sydney :)

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  • Sim1

    Sim1

    20 Aug, 2015 03:56 pm

    Actually a triangular... sydney - sydney - sydney might work too :P

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  • Himeno

    Himeno

    20 Aug, 2015 04:10 pm

    I don't see the 747's being taken off JNB or SCL any time soon. I see 787s going to HKG, HND, SFO, DFW, LAX and SYD-JNB/SCL maintaining 747 service until either CASA allows 2 engine operation over the southern oceans or the ER's get retired.

    The 787s had better get a premium economy cabin. Around 21 seats.

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  • crosscourt

    crosscourt

    20 Aug, 2015 04:16 pm

    would love the return of SYD-SIN-LHR serviced by the Dreamliner

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  • Nick  Sydney 348

    Nick Sydney 2

    20 Aug, 2015 07:43 pm

    Prestige of flying to London maybe... But anyone who travels to heathrow regularly,  ie every six weeks,  will know there is nothing fun about heathrow or the trek from there to the city.  Have been doing Sydney to Amsterdam and then into London city airport. Sydney to Amsterdam or Paris would be nice 

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  • Himeno

    Himeno

    20 Aug, 2015 09:59 pm

    Under the current Australia-France air services agreement, Australian carriers are allowed 3.0 "units" per week into mainland France.

    A 240 - 279 seat aircraft, the 787-9 target, is counted as 0.6 units. They'd only be allowed 5 flights/week.

    QF has said in the past that they don't want to return to Paris unless they can get daily flights - which isn't possible with reasonable capacity under the current air services agreement. (Daily flights with the current agreement would require aircraft with less then 200 seats. I don't see QF flying a 737 to Europe)

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  • Nick  Sydney 348

    Nick Sydney 2

    20 Aug, 2015 07:46 pm

    +1.  Miss the Singapore stop.  Beer and noodles at Clarke quay 

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  • Ebbuk

    Ebbuk

    20 Aug, 2015 04:29 pm

    This a win for QF. They've bought those planes at 2005 prices (made up by the 787 marketeers) plus delay payments for 787 debacles. No wonder AJ says that when he looked at the A350 again, the 787 looked right! Congrats to QF. You will not catch me in Economy on a Dreamliner ever again. Prem Econ and Business? Sure  

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  • Shoudy Chen

    Shoudy Chen

    20 Aug, 2015 05:17 pm

    That Qantas B789 looks really funky there! Would like a premium economy inside the Dreamliners!

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  • johnnypc67

    johnnypc67

    20 Aug, 2015 06:25 pm

    What airlines are currently flying 787 with a 2-4-2 economy? I think JAL are!

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  • Fonga

    Fonga

    20 Aug, 2015 06:47 pm

    Always worth reading what is originally said:

    • “Routes that are long range routes that we don’t fly today,
    • routes that have low levels of traffic volumes that didn’t justify a 747 or
    • routes where we have less than dailies where we would love to get to dailies or
    • routes that we want to fly over a hub and go directly into other destinations not having to fly through LA.”

    Alan Joyce

    The fourth one is interesting. What city or cities could he mean?

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  • GgFlyer

    GgFlyer

    20 Aug, 2015 07:08 pm

    Probably Dallas, San Francisco and New York?

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  • StudiodeKadent

    StudiodeKadent

    20 Aug, 2015 07:26 pm

    They won't be able to directly reach New York with a Dreamliner. SF and Dallas are the only likely candidates there (and I think Dallas can only be reached from Brisbane directly...).

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  • Himeno

    Himeno

    20 Aug, 2015 09:40 pm

    Boeing website quotes 787-9 range as 14,140km

    -DFW

    SYD: 13,804km

    MEL: 14,472km

    BNE: 13,363km

    AKL: 11,974km

    SYD and BNE can get to DFW direct. SYD may have issues on the return. MEL would require a stop. No reason they couldn't do MEL-DFW via AKL or BNE.

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  • StudiodeKadent

    StudiodeKadent

    20 Aug, 2015 10:49 pm

    Remember that Sydney-DFW is serviced by an A380, which has a longer range than the Dreamliner, and it cannot make the return journey with a full load of pax. The prevailing winds on the return make it difficult, to say the least.

    So I think if anything, the most Dreamliner route will be MEL-BNE-DFW. That should in theory be possible at a full load.

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  • GgFlyer

    GgFlyer

    20 Aug, 2015 07:11 pm

    Hooray! Now lets hope we can get these 787s without any more delays!

    some routes id like to see would be:                                                                                

    •MEL - DFW

    •MEL - BKK

    •PER - JNB

    •BNE - HNL

    •PER - DXB - FRA

    • BNE - DXB - AMS/FCO/CDG

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  • GgFlyer

    GgFlyer

    20 Aug, 2015 07:21 pm

    Hooray! Now lets hope we can get these 787s without any more delays!

    some routes id like to see would be:                                                                                

    •MEL - DFW

    •MEL - BKK

    •PER - JNB

    •BNE - HNL

    •PER - DXB - FRA

    • BNE - DXB - AMS/FCO/CDG

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  • somethingy23

    somethingy23

    20 Aug, 2015 08:50 pm

    Mexico City does make sense. A metropoliatan area of ~20 million people and a fast emerging financial services industry make it a potential goldmine for Qantas. Especially if they're looking to fill up in the premium seats.

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  • Vannus

    Vannus

    21 Aug, 2015 01:28 am

    Back in the '70's, QANTAS DID fly to Mexico City!

    it was called the 'Fiesta Route' to London. The routing was: SYD/NAN/PPT/ACA/MEX/NAS/BDA/LHR......what a marvellous way! You could have stopovers at these marvellous cities. 

    There was a 14/28 day Excursion fare. I spent a few days at NAN, then went onto MEX, & stayed with friends there for the balance of my 14 days minimum 'away' requirement. It was absolutely fantastic!

    if you're an enthusiast of MESO-American Ancient History, this is one of the best places to see it. Their Museum of Anthropology is just tops! 

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  • Ryan Hogan

    justcallmeryan

    21 Aug, 2015 06:14 am

    I agree, MEX is amazing and one of the globes top cities to visit.

    The problem would be return traffic. With the peso at current values there is not likely to be very many Mexicans coming to OZ. And with plenty of MEX - LAX frequencies which can easily connect to SYD/MEL/BNE I can't see this happening.

    Maybe in a few years when the Mexican economy grows.

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  • Christopher Campbell

    Chris2304

    21 Aug, 2015 08:57 am

    http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/...plementary.pdf

    On page 15 it says that 1 747 is being retired in FY16. So that would make 10 747s then obviously the 8 787s replace 5 older 747s. 
    Default

    Although technically then 8 787-9s are replacing 4 B747s with growth because they only need 10 to maintain the current network with OJM be retired this Financial Year.
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  • GregXL

    GregXL

    21 Aug, 2015 09:52 am

    All this talk of new routes is exciting stuff, but if the initial order is replacing 5 747s and the target seat count is 250, then you only have an extra 200 seats.  It may look a bit different if the more detailed plan is for 2 747s to be retired as the A330 refit program winds up. Then you have about 4 of the 787s as extra seats.  I would also not be surprised to see the refurbed 747s kept a bit longer if fuel prices stay where they are.  They would still be less than 20 years old when then 787s start arriving.

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  • Christopher Campbell

    Chris2304

    21 Aug, 2015 10:06 am

    Only 1 B747 is scheduled to be retired in FY16. The Sydney-Hong Kong service will most likely move to an A330 service which will enable a 747 service to be retired, but I can't see how they could retire anymore below the 10 until the 787-9s arrive?

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  • Himeno

    Himeno

    21 Aug, 2015 02:53 pm

    Retiming SYD-HND for a 90min-2hour turn at HND would allow one 747 to be retired. Changing HND to A330s would allow 2 747 to be retired.

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  • JoeA350

    JoeA350

    22 Aug, 2015 01:12 pm

    The 10 x A330-300s are designated as International Config Aircraft but also operate domestically, also, the -200s (x18) also operate International sectors despite being labelled as Domestic aircraft.

    With the new config, I think all the A330 aircraft will be deployed in  a mix of Domestic and International sectors to maximise the aircraft utilisation (currently the highest utilisation of A330s in the world).

     This will give the airline greater flexibility in scheduling extra seats when required or swaping out for a -200 when load factors are poor.

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  • Christopher Campbell

    Chris2304

    22 Aug, 2015 01:47 pm

    I've believe the newer 8 A332 with inbuilt inflight screens will be deployed on international and Donestic whilst the 10 older A332 will just be deployed on domestic routes

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  • Christopher Campbell

    Chris2304

    22 Aug, 2015 01:49 pm

    Ok could Qantas change the Sydney Hong Kong service from 747 to A330?

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  • concorde70

    concorde70

    24 Aug, 2015 03:54 pm

    I'd like to see MEL-JNB or even SYD-MEL-JNB since QF63/64 overflies Melbourne anyway!

    It is a pain to have to fly from MEL-SYD at 7:00am only to overfly MEL at 12:00pm on a 14hr flight having already flown for two hours with an inconvenient domestic/International connection at SYD!! It would be so much better to depart MEL at 12:00pm on a direct 13hr flight!

    This could also add capacity from MEL - SYD for other international connections. Check in and clear customs at MEL for internatonal flights from SYD.

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  • Nicholas Nic

    Nicbulley

    3 Jan, 2016 11:57 am

    I still think the A350 is a better option for Qantas. There is no doubt that they will choose the sardine configuration (9 abreast) in economy. The 787 is designed to be 8 abreast which means the seats will be much more cramped. The A350 is wider than the 787 and is designed to be 9 abreast. Although because the 787 is the cheaper option which makes it more appealing to airlines.

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  • AJW

    AJW

    3 Jan, 2016 12:00 pm

    Agree the A350 does seem the better fit, but price does pay a big part and Qantas would have got a massive launch customer discount.

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  • Christopher Campbell

    Chris2304

    3 Jan, 2016 12:10 pm

    Hopefully the 3-3-3 Thompson Aero Cozysuite for economy! Qantas/AJ know they have to differentiate the the economy offering on the QF 787 to the tight Jetstar 787 economy offering and even many of the other premium airlines with the tight economy. And since the Buisness suite is from Thompson Aero at could raise the likely hood of the Cozysuite. 

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  • Alexander Judzewitsch

    AlexJud

    10 Apr, 2016 05:35 pm

    We have just flown to Honolulu in a 787-8 with 3-3-3 seating in economy. My partner and I both said "never again!" and will avoid it at all costs. My advice to Qantas is to follow the decision by ANA to go with 2-4-2 seating instead.

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