Is BNE losing it's Emirates a380 service ?

By wdeguara | May 05, 2017, 05:47 PM
Was looking at the Emirates web site today and noticed that as of March 25 next year the daily EK435 BNE > DXB and return EK434 (DXB > BNE) which is normally an a380 service is downgraded to the 777-300ER.   I'm guessing this has to do with the commencement of Qantas' 787 service to London on March 24 as the Qantas website no longer lists the Emirates codeshare as an option for BNE flights to London after that date (instead providing Perth as the transit point - with the connecting BNE-PER leg being on a domestic 737).  Just wondering whether anyone has heard anything official about that ?  Initial impression is that it looks like a significant downgrade for BNE folks heading to Europe - particularly Business travellers.
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By djcz | May 05, 2017, 06:30 PM
Being based in BNE, I don't think I will ever take the PER-LHR direct, over 24 hours to get to London doing BNE-PER-LHR... No Thank You. If EK are downgrading BNE-DXB to a 777-300ER, I'm more than happy to give my money to SQ or CX and fly Via SIN or HKG (which I already do).
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By AForrr | May 05, 2017, 06:49 PM
It may be just down to a disconnect between when Emirates opens up flights vs Qantas. There was someone posting here on AusBT earlier in the week re this. I checked BNE-AKL flights and I can see the service as a codeshare on an A380 up till Feb, then nothing in March. 

Keep in mind Emirates operates its BNE/SYD/MEL to AKL flights primarily to (1) move freight between AU and NZ, and (2) utilise airframe downtime effectively much as Qantas does when it rotates its 744 services from LAX to JFK return - the airframe basically is sitting idle for short periods...

It would appear that self-loading freight (i.e. pax) on these flights are a tolerated inconvenience...
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By wdeguara | May 05, 2017, 07:10 PM

I hope you're right,  AForrr. The Emirates web site is currently showing the BNE>AKL>BNE leg as also being downgraded to the 777 from March 26 onwards.  I have a gut feeling that Qantas have pulled their codeshare from this flight (choosing instead to route its passengers via PER/SYD on it's own metal) which is why Emirates have downsized the aircraft.  Time will tell ....

 

BTW. On further examination, the Emirates web site is also showing Perth's EK420  and return EK421 as being downsized from the a380 to 777 from the same date. As is Sydney's EK415/EK419 and return EK414/EK418, and Melbourne's EK405/EK407 and return EK404/406.

Last edited by wdeguara at May 05, 2017, 11.35 PM.
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By henrus | May 05, 2017, 08:43 PM
I was the person who dismissed the concern of the codeshare being dropped and now looking at it I'm regretting saying what I said earlier...

If you look across the Qantas website it seems all codeshare flights end on the 24th even to places in the Middle East. Something tells me that it may be good bye to the QF/EK partnership and possibly back to the SIN hub or even HKG as Qantas has the facilities in those ports (Lounges, Ground staff etc).
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By hakkinen5 | May 05, 2017, 08:51 PM
The alliance needs re-approval by the authorities sometime around then is my understanding. Approval has not yet been sought. Perhaps they are waiting for this? I hope the alliance is not dropped as we all lose 1 stop connections to most of Europe. Hopefully Henrus your original hypothesis is correct.
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By henrus | May 05, 2017, 08:57 PM
hakkinen5 I hope so too but I fear the worst.

Even in the early days they began to announce the partnership and even sell tickets without approval so I don't think that's what they are waiting for. At present any flights after 24 March 18 for European destinations all go through London and connect onto BA flights.
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By henrus | May 05, 2017, 09:01 PM
I was able to find EK flights after 24 March but they didn't have a QF code. For example Brisbane to Casablanca. The flight goes BNE-SYD-DXB (on QF) and then DXB-Casablanca on EK with an EK code (despite being on the QF website) and even QF1/2 have disappeared off the EK site but clearly a codeshare will remain with TSV-BNE-DXB-LHR still shows an EK code for the first flight operated by QF.  
Last edited by henrus at May 05, 2017, 09.11 PM.
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By ajstubbs | May 05, 2017, 09:07 PM
It could still be to do with the codeshare agreement being renegotiated. I'd love to believe HKG or SIN will go back to being the hub but I find it unlikely - SIN would leave them only with LHR connections on QF1 and HKG could be a tie up with CX but there's been no chatter to indicate this and their network is nothing on EKs so i'm skeptical. Guess, like always, we'll just have to wait and see. As for the downgrade, EK could just be upgrading MEL and in the process, downgrading BNE leaving their total AU traffic at the same level.
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By henrus | May 05, 2017, 09:15 PM
If you look at Brisbane to Casablanca they (QF) are selling the EK flight but with an EK code. The dead giveaway that this is a problem is the aircraft. The flight is listed as being operated by a A340-500, somthing that was removed from the Emirates fleet last year.
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By knowlsey | May 05, 2017, 11:28 PM
By the looks of it most services by Emirates A380's are being downgraded to 777 across Australia and NZ destinations.

EK 448/449 DXB to AKL is not being advertised - which is a surprise to me, it shouldn't have anything to do with the EK and QF partnership (or am I wrong on this ?)

DXB to SYD to AKL is staying on a A380, but will change flight numbers to EK 412/413 the current flight numbers for  SYD to CHC

The DXB to BKK to SYD to CHC is going to EK 418/419 and back to a 777

Melbourne only A380 is EK 408/409, which is the 'last' Melbourne flight to be upgraded to an A380 on the 25th March 2018

But guess we are going to have to keep an eye on this
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By afloskar | May 06, 2017, 09:00 AM
I found this on EK's website so something isn't adding up...Hope this helps :)

Last edited by afloskar at May 06, 2017, 09.09 AM.
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By Mightyreds | May 06, 2017, 11:01 AM
No doubt David and the AUSBT team will seek a response from QF & EK.
Last edited by Mightyreds at May 06, 2017, 12.06 PM.
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By David | May 06, 2017, 11:21 AM
Interesting... thanks for the heads-up, guys, we'll definitely look into this!
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By cdirnber | May 06, 2017, 01:56 PM
The following from the Amadeus timetable might help:

BNE-DXB

TN24MARBNEDXB
** AMADEUS TIMETABLE - TN ** DXB DUBAI.AE                      24MAR18 31MAR18
 1   EK 435  D    BNE I DXB 3  2030    0530+1 0 25MAR18         77W 15:00
 2   EK 435  6    BNE I DXB 3  2045    0520+1 0 04NOV17 24MAR18 388 14:35
 3EK:QF8435  6    BNE I DXB 3  2045    0520+1 0 04NOV17 24MAR18 388 14:35
 4   EK 433  X7   BNE I DXB 3  0245    1300   1 26MAR18         77W 16:15
 5   EK 433  67   BNE I DXB 3  0235    1300   1 04NOV17 25MAR18 77W 16:25
 6EK:QF8433  6    BNE I DXB 3  0235    1300   1 04NOV17 24MAR18 77W 16:25


AMADEUS TIMETABLE - TN ** DXB DUBAI.AE                      01APR18 08APR18
 1   EK 435  D    BNE I DXB 3  2030    0530+1 0 25MAR18         77W 15:00
 2   EK 433  D    BNE I DXB 3  0245    1300   1 26MAR18         77W 16:15

t seems that from April onwards there are not QF/EK codeshares.

MEL-DXB
1   EK 409  X7   MEL 2 DXB 3  0600    1300   0 26MAR18 31MAR18 388 14:00
 2   EK 409  7    MEL 2 DXB 3  0600    1300   0 25MAR18 25MAR18 77W 14:00
 3EK:QF8409  6    MEL 2 DXB 3  0600    1305   0 04NOV17 24MAR18 77W 14:05
 4   EK 409  6    MEL 2 DXB 3  0600    1305   0 04NOV17 24MAR18 77W 14:05
 5   EK 405  6    MEL 2 DXB 3  1845    0430+1 1 04NOV17 24MAR18 388 16:45
 6EK:QF8405  6    MEL 2 DXB 3  1845    0430+1 1 04NOV17 24MAR18 388 16:45
 7   EK 405  D    MEL 2 DXB 3  1855    0450+1 1 25MAR18         77W 16:55
 8   EK 407  D    MEL 2 DXB 3  2225    0540+1 0 25MAR18         77W 14:15
 9EK:QF8407  6    MEL 2 DXB 3  2230    0535+1 0 04NOV17 24MAR18 388 14:05
10   EK 407  6    MEL 2 DXB 3  2230    0540+1 0 04NOV17 24MAR18 388 14:10


** AMADEUS TIMETABLE - TN ** DXB DUBAI.AE                      01APR18 08APR18
 1   EK 409  D    MEL 2 DXB 3  0500    1300   0 01APR18 06OCT18 388 14:00
 2   EK 405  D    MEL 2 DXB 3  1855    0450+1 1 25MAR18         77W 15:55
 3   EK 407  D    MEL 2 DXB 3  2225    0540+1 0 25MAR18         77W 13:15
It seems that from April onwards there are not QF/EK codeshares.

SYD-DXB
1EK:QF8415  6    SYD 1 DXB 3  0600    1320   0 07OCT17 24MAR18 388 14:20
 2   EK 415  6    SYD 1 DXB 3  0600    1320   0 07OCT17 24MAR18 388 14:20
 3   EK 415  D    SYD 1 DXB 3  0600    1330   0 25MAR18         77W 14:30
 4QF:EK5001  6    SYD 1 DXB 3  1645    0040+1 0 04NOV17 24MAR18 388 14:55
 5   QF 001  6    SYD 1 DXB 3  1645    0040+1 0 24MAR18 24MAR18 388 14:55
 6   QF 001  D    SYD 1 DXB 3  1650    0025+1 0 25MAR18 31MAR18 388 14:35
 7EK:QF8413  6    SYD 1 DXB 3  2145    0515+1 0 07OCT17 24MAR18 388 14:30
 8   EK 413  6    SYD 1 DXB 3  2145    0515+1 0 07OCT17 24MAR18 388 14:30
 9   EK 413  D    SYD 1 DXB 3  2145    0530+1 0 25MAR18         388 14:45
10   EK 419  D    SYD 1 DXB 3  1950    0555+1 1 25MAR18         77W 17:05
11   EK 419  6    SYD 1 DXB 3  1950    0645+1 1 04NOV17 24MAR18 388 17:55
12EK:QF8419  6    SYD 1 DXB 3  1950    0645+1 1 04NOV17 24MAR18 388 17:55


** AMADEUS TIMETABLE - TN ** DXB DUBAI.AE                      01APR18 08APR18
 1   EK 415  D    SYD 1 DXB 3  0600    1330   0 25MAR18         77W 13:30
 2   QF 001  D    SYD 1 DXB 3  1550    0025+1 0 01APR18 06OCT18 388 14:35
 3   EK 413  D    SYD 1 DXB 3  2145    0530+1 0 25MAR18         388 13:45
 4   EK 419  D    SYD 1 DXB 3  1950    0555+1 1 25MAR18         77W 16:05
t seems that from April onwards there are not QF/EK codeshares.

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By Himeno | May 06, 2017, 06:09 PM
The alliance needs re-approval by the authorities sometime around then is my understanding. Approval has not yet been sought. Perhaps they are waiting for this? I hope the alliance is not dropped as we all lose 1 stop connections to most of Europe. Hopefully Henrus your original hypothesis is correct.


The ACCC QF/EK alliance antitrust approval expires March 31 2018.
They first applied in Sep 2012 asking for 10 years. They got interim approval in Jan 2013 whereupon they started selling tickets under the alliance and the ACCC gave final approval for 5 years in March 2013.
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