Why are there no daytime US-Australia flights?

By AB__CD | Sep 17, 2017, 01:17 PM
VA6 LAX 1115 1815+1 BNEIf we look at the schedule, QF LAX flights are scheduled like this:

QF11 SYD 0950 0630 LAX
QF12 LAX 2230 0620+2 SYD

QF93 MEL 0915 0635 LAX
QF94 LAX 2210 0655+2 MEL

QF15 BNE 1020 0600 LAX
QF16 LAX 2320 0610+2 BNE

The planes all sit around in LAX for basically a whole day. Why aren't there more flights like VA's one-weekly daytime flights, which run:
VA6 LAX 1115 1815+1 BNE
VA9 BNE 2130 1735 LAX (The plane flies BNE-LAX-BNE-LAX-BNE, and this is the middle flight)

I mean, this kind of night departure out of US, morning from Aussie, is very neat for the US carriers, where the planes sit around for four hours tops, but for QF and VA it just doesn't make that much sense to have 3 planes a day sitting at LAX for 14-16 hours. The only one reason I can think of for QF is the JFK service, but it doesn't apply to VA, which does the same thing on all but one of its services, and does QF value its JFK service THAT much? I mean AA already runs like 10 daily LAX JFK services, and many more out of DFW. Any better reason why?
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By sdtravel | Sep 17, 2017, 02:41 PM
Perhaps connections. 
Just because you came from JFK doent mean your are going back to SYD.
JFK - LAX - MEL. Also the BNE 747 is used on the JFK - LAX flight so its not on the ground the whole day. 
Perhaps the number of connections is maximised if they stay longer. Eg they can come in from AA flights during the day and connect at LAX. You can connect from other cities into the hubs. Similar reason perhaps with DFW. I did AUS - DFW - SYD a few months back. Was able to finish work around 4pm get from AUS to DFW then onto Sydney. A morning / midday departure would get in late at night. 

Also remember QF has a maintenance facility in LAX so the time on the ground also allows them to do any work needed. 
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By Bob Burgess | Sep 17, 2017, 03:43 PM
I'd definitely like the option of a daytime US-AU flight, leave the USA around noon and get back to Sydney in the late afternoon or early evening Not much good for connections though, and I suppose this is what drives it, but it would be good to let those who need to travel onwards from Sydney choose an overnight US-AU flight. Maybe this is the next type of 'competition' we'll see, instead of more flights around the time timetable a new flight with a different timetable.
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By richard89 | Sep 17, 2017, 04:54 PM
Connections. Won't work. 
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By ryanpst | Sep 17, 2017, 07:06 PM
Curfew in Sydney on the arriving side would be a problem
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By AB__CD | Sep 17, 2017, 11:22 PM

Connections. Won't work. 


I don't see why they can't operate a schedule like this, since they sometimes do 2 daily flights:


QF11 SYD 0950 0630 LAX

QF17 SYD 1750 1430 LAX


QF12 LAX 0930 1720+1 SYD

QF18 SYD 2230 0620+1 SYD


5.20pm certainly isn't too late for connections, I mean even to the western edge it works: QF583, the last flight to Perth, departs at 7.45pm for a 10.30pm arrival into Perth, and PER is at the very edge of Aussie. 9.30am isn't an ungodly early time either, once took a CX flight that departed at 8.20am out of LAX. Not everyone will like it, but the choice would be nice.

Last edited by AB__CD at Sep 17, 2017, 11.23 PM.
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By AB__CD | Sep 17, 2017, 11:23 PM
Curfew in Sydney on the arriving side would be a problem

Check post above, a 9.30am departure out of LAX means a 5.20pm arrival in Sydney.
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By KinHo | Sep 18, 2017, 01:07 AM
Would be nice to fly day time with the window shades up through out the flight. 14 hours of daylight. 
No need to simulate a night time cabin embience like that of Europe flights to East Asia hubs, no matter departing at noon or night time. 
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By markpk | Sep 18, 2017, 07:31 AM
Qantas has a major A380 service base at LAX - so they can undertake service tasks for themselves and others whilst the planes are on the ground during the day
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By hutch | Sep 19, 2017, 12:48 PM
The times that Qantas runs two flights from Syd to Lax are pretty rare these days.  So that is probably the first issue. 

But as others have noted, Qantas spent a bucket load of money building a hanger at LAX to facilitate maintenance on its planes whilst they are sitting on the ground (ie, to use the ground time to undertake a task they have to do anyway).

Using your proposed current schedule, Qantas would fly its A380 back to arrive in Sydney at 5:30pm. It would then sit on the ground overnight until it flies out again. Which is just moving ground time from LAX to SYD. If you looked at flying it another destination overnight, I can't actually think of any that would work and allow the plane to be back in SYD to operate a morning departure whilst also achieving suitable yields. 

I like the idea of a daytime LAX-SYD flight, but I think it  requires a smaller plane than the A380 and will require QF to operate LAX twice daily year round (which I can't see happening with the push for AA tie-up and the search for more US destinations (ORD etc).

 
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By smit0847 | Sep 20, 2017, 07:50 AM
Business travellers (who are paying full price for premium seats) would rather leave at night and arrive early morning rather than miss a full day of work sitting on a Wi-Fi-less plane
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By simiguelito47 | Sep 20, 2017, 11:14 AM

QF17 SYD 2120 1800 LAX

to connect to those overnight transcon flights and double up on sleep for a morning arrival in Boston, DC or New York. Pull off a full day of work in Australia, off to the airport, and upon arrival on the east coast, a full day of work again.


AA's transcon product may not compare with the QF A330s between Perth and the East coast but they still go fully flat (can't say the same for Virgin America though), and LAX-BOS or LAX-JFK are much longer than PER-BNE or PER-SYD to allow for a decent (second) sleep.

Last edited by simiguelito47 at Sep 21, 2017, 09.02 AM.
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By simiguelito47 | Sep 20, 2017, 11:21 AM
On another note, if QF is replacing 747s with 787s on these routes, if they don't fly to any new cities they would have to compensate for the reduced capacity of the 787 with more frequent flights - this could actually be happening soon
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By hutch | Sep 20, 2017, 12:44 PM
On another note, if QF is replacing 747s with 787s on these routes, if they don't fly to any new cities they would have to compensate for the reduced capacity of the 787 with more frequent flights - this could actually be happening soon

Whilst not confirmed, QF is likely to replace the BNE-LAX 747 with a 787. But overall, QF capacity to LAX from Australia will be pretty much the same with 6 x MEL-LAX 787 flights. 

An afternoon departure from SYD has previously been done by QF and I agree with the idea behind it. But only really works if QF returns to 2 x SYD departures - which I can only see happening if the QF/AA JV gets rejected again and QF has a spare plane. Though the LAX market is getting pretty saturated and a monopoly route may make more sense.
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By Russjking | Sep 20, 2017, 04:49 PM
Personally I prefer night flights (in Business/First) as they are 'non-time' for me: I'm asleep whilst the world moves under me. I arrive nice and fresh for a new day, and get more full days abroad.
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By Jazzop | Sep 20, 2017, 04:50 PM
On another note, if QF is replacing 747s with 787s on these routes, if they don't fly to any new cities they would have to compensate for the reduced capacity of the 787 with more frequent flights - this could actually be happening soon

Whilst not confirmed, QF is likely to replace the BNE-LAX 747 with a 787. But overall, QF capacity to LAX from Australia will be pretty much the same with 6 x MEL-LAX 787 flights.

An afternoon departure from SYD has previously been done by QF and I agree with the idea behind it. But only really works if QF returns to 2 x SYD departures - which I can only see happening if the QF/AA JV gets rejected again and QF has a spare plane. Though the LAX market is getting pretty saturated and a monopoly route may make more sense.

Qantas have confirmed 4 x 787s for BNE, 2 x to be used to replace the 744s on BNE - LAX, and the other 2 for a new US destination.
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