Does Qantas really want me to fly with them?

By Serg | Jan 15, 2017, 01:21 PM
Looks like I have to fly to Milan toward end of the year. So I started researching what is going on on MEL-MXP route. Naturally as proud Australian and QFF member I prefer fly Qantas to support our flag-carrier and earn some QFF points and SC. If I like to fly QF metal to DXB and then EK to MXP (they said that this is the reason they went into bed with Emirates) then I have to part with whopping $9800. If I happy to fly via LHR then it much cheaper at $8200. Cheapest QF ticket is about $7300 with all round EK metal. But heck if I happy to fly EK then why not buy EK ticket at $7000?
Then I checked other carriers and found that BA charges $6600, SQ and CX $6200 and AY $5500. Now considering that seats in SQ and CX much better than QF what incentive I have to fly QF at all? Actually I will choose AY despite extra leg - their seats in A350 as good as CX, I flew with them and love their service and punctuality and I may visit sauna in their Helsinki lounge.
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By vvbjr | Jan 15, 2017, 03:03 PM
Now that you've done your research I guess you've found your answer...
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By Serg | Jan 15, 2017, 03:38 PM
Now that you've done your research I guess you've found your answer...

Indeed. Despite my desire to fly with them I do not remember when I purchased QF ticket last time - there are better choices or they simply do not fly where I like ti fly. For example there is no direct QF flight MEL-BKK, does not matter how ridiculous it sounds.
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By markpk | Jan 15, 2017, 03:53 PM
Serg, 
You do understand supply and demand don't you? 

Ultimately the airlines will allocate buckets of fares that can be sourced direct, via code-share, via multi-carrier on one PNR, via aggregators - that's how the business works...When buckets are exhausted, fares go up! 

Sometimes Qantas flies where you want it to fly and you max out SC and QFFP - like I did on a trip from BNE/LAX/LAS/ORD/EWR/JFK/BNE. 

Sometimes they don't. Last year I needed to get from LAX to PDX - no Qantas code-share option...tough 

What I'd suggest you do is disconnect your wish to "support our flag carrier" from your desire to earn the most SC and points...I don't see how they can be mutually fulfilling...
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By Serg | Jan 15, 2017, 04:08 PM
Serg, 
You do understand supply and demand don't you? 

Ultimately the airlines will allocate buckets of fares that can be sourced direct, via code-share, via multi-carrier on one PNR, via aggregators - that's how the business works...When buckets are exhausted, fares go up! 

Sometimes Qantas flies where you want it to fly and you max out SC and QFFP - like I did on a trip from BNE/LAX/LAS/ORD/EWR/JFK/BNE. 

Sometimes they don't. Last year I needed to get from LAX to PDX - no Qantas code-share option...tough 

What I'd suggest you do is disconnect your wish to "support our flag carrier" from your desire to earn the most SC and points...I don't see how they can be mutually fulfilling...


I do not understand how supply and demand works in Qantas case. At all. I can buy CX tickets (lets forget about AY with 3 legs for a moment) and CX has FAR superior business product, transits via HKG with marvelous lounges, I still earning points and they charge much less. So only incentive remains is ability to upgrade to first (do not really care - CX business is good enough for me and upgradable ticket cost even more!) and earn SC - do not care much either because I do not fly that much. So no, I do not understand what is "supply and demand" in Qantas terminology.
And yes, call me silly sausage, but I prefer to buy Australian if I can because I like to support our workers.
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By rufusfly | Jan 15, 2017, 04:50 PM
Now that you've done your research I guess you've found your answer...

Indeed. Despite my desire to fly with them I do not remember when I purchased QF ticket last time - there are better choices or they simply do not fly where I like ti fly. For example there is no direct QF flight MEL-BKK, does not matter how ridiculous it sounds.
Serg  A lot of people Have to fly  via Sydney But you get Free travel from Hobart  on QF in J class AS well as sc and ff To fly to Sydney . Same price from Hobart to BK as SYD/BK
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By Serg | Jan 15, 2017, 08:38 PM
Now that you've done your research I guess you've found your answer...

Indeed. Despite my desire to fly with them I do not remember when I purchased QF ticket last time - there are better choices or they simply do not fly where I like ti fly. For example there is no direct QF flight MEL-BKK, does not matter how ridiculous it sounds.
Serg  A lot of people Have to fly  via Sydney But you get Free travel from Hobart  on QF in J class AS well as sc and ff To fly to Sydney . Same price from Hobart to BK as SYD/BK

I am not saying that Melbourne is any "better" than Hobart, but it indeed second biggest city in Australia and not having direct flight to such popular destination as BKK is plainly ridiculous to me. It is not about price, it is about convenience. May be (just may be) you in Hobart use to use to be "second hand citizens", but IMHO it is plainly wrong. I would understand when people from say Mildura have to fly to Melbourne if they going to Bangkok, but I do not believe that it is right when Melbournians  (and people from Hobart for this merit) have to fly to Sydney to go overseas. Now lets talk to Perthians
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By ajstubbs | Jan 15, 2017, 09:03 PM
To be fair, the other airlines you mentioned are all in their big sale period - QF have their big annual sale in February (around Valentine's Day if memory serves). At standard pricing, CX are around $7100 and SQ closr to $7500 for those routes. Admittedly, even during sales, QF tend to be hitting close to or on $7000 and there's some factors that go some way to explaining that. I do agree, for non-sale prices, their seats aren't up to it though.
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By Serg | Jan 15, 2017, 09:39 PM


[QUOTE=13137;35148]

To be fair, the other airlines you mentioned are all in their big sale period - QF have their big annual sale in February (around Valentine's Day if memory serves). At standard pricing, CX are around $7100 and SQ closr to $7500 for those routes. Admittedly, even during sales, QF tend to be hitting close to or on $7000 and there's some factors that go some way to explaining that. I do agree, for non-sale prices, their seats aren't up to it though.

[/QUOTE]


It is true, but only partially - you very right only about CX and SQ. However I do not remember QF prices below $7500, so quoted QF price of $7300 is damn good (for QF of course). And also AY $5500 is nothing special - they constantly have prices to Europe below $6000 mark. Their usual route is MEL-SIN by QF and then by AY. Why the heck they (AY) can do it below $6000 mark while QF like to charge their customers close to 10K when AY use QF to fly to SIN and their (AY) business class (except old A340) is far superior to QF?
Last edited by Serg at Jan 15, 2017, 09.44 PM.
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By rufusfly | Jan 15, 2017, 10:00 PM
Now that you've done your research I guess you've found your answer...

Indeed. Despite my desire to fly with them I do not remember when I purchased QF ticket last time - there are better choices or they simply do not fly where I like ti fly. For example there is no direct QF flight MEL-BKK, does not matter how ridiculous it sounds.
Serg  A lot of people Have to fly  via Sydney But you get Free travel from Hobart  on QF in J class AS well as sc and ff To fly to Sydney . Same price from Hobart to BK as SYD/BK

I am not saying that Melbourne is any "better" than Hobart, but it indeed second biggest city in Australia and not having direct flight to such popular destination as BKK is plainly ridiculous to me. It is not about price, it is about convenience. May be (just may be) you in Hobart use to use to be "second hand citizens", but IMHO it is plainly wrong. I would understand when people from say Mildura have to fly to Melbourne if they going to Bangkok, but I do not believe that it is right when Melbournians  (and people from Hobart for this merit) have to fly to Sydney to go overseas. Now lets talk to Perthians
Melbourne  has a much better airport than Sydney and the convenience from domestic to lnternational is so easy   Mel/SIN,/ Bkk so easy .Great lounge at Singapore.
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By ajstubbs | Jan 15, 2017, 10:02 PM
I've had QF return to LHR in J for $7000 every year for the past three years. I think two were the feb sale and one was companion but don't quote me on that. As for the difference with AY, two big reasons come to mind. 1. They're just not as well known with J passengers. Most go with who they know rather than searching alliances etc for cheaper deals while getting points. QF has a big following in the AUS business set and that won't change. They can charge more. People also don't want to go via HEL when they could go more direct. 
2. The price difference can further be explained in costs. The QF safety, maintenance and training program is one of the best and is also costly. People in turn are happy to pay for it. Aus wages are also high. Finnair is also great for safety but to average joe blow they're an unknown quantity. QF trade off safety, it has a fundamental market value. 
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By Serg | Jan 15, 2017, 10:17 PM
...The QF safety, maintenance and training program is one of the best and is also costly..

While I (partially) agree with your other points this is plainly ridiculous - search for Finnair safety records and you will be surprised that it is on par (or even better) than Qantas.
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By ajstubbs | Jan 15, 2017, 10:30 PM
See where I said Finnair is also great for this? my point wasn't that QF spend more on this than AY although labour wise they may well do, but rather they spend a lot comparative to some others hence generally slightly higher prices. My further point was that QF charge more because of safety reputation; like I said, people will pay for it and don't always know airlines like AY have great standards because it's not traded off so much. Kindly seek clarification before saying someone is being ridiculous and implying they know nothing.
Last edited by ajstubbs at Jan 15, 2017, 10.31 PM.
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By dimi | Jan 16, 2017, 07:03 AM
Serg,


My apologies, but I don't quite see the point of this discussion.


Whether or not you or I or anyone else on this forum have a detailed and sufficient understanding of how supply and demand works for Qantas is hardly relevant.

The only thing that really matters here is: Do Qantas flights take off for Dubai with empty business seats?

Clearly the answer is "no". That is a sufficient indicator that they have no problem getting bums on seats with the pricing strategy they have.


Returning back to the original question of "Does Qantas really want me to fly with them?", I can imagine the discussion with a Qantas representative:

 - I really want to support Australian workers by flying Qantas business class to Milan in 2017. Do you want me to fly with you?

 - Of course, sir! Thank you for choosing Qantas. Your sentiment is very much appreciated!  A direct flight to Dubai in our business class with an onward connection to Milan will be $9300, please.

 - That sounds a little too expensive.

 - No problem, Sir. We also offer a flight one-stop flight to London in Qantas business with an onward connection to Milan on British Airways for $8200.

 - But I can find flights on other airlines for a lot less than that! I want to support Australian workers by flying Qantas, but paying not a penny more than $5500 that Finnair would charge me for a flight with connections in Hong Kong and Helsinki. On top of that, I would be able to use a wonderful CX lounge in HK and the awesome AY sauna in Helsinki if I were to choose Finnair.

 - Thank you for calling Qantas, Sir! It sounds like Finnair would be a great choice for your next trip to Milan. We appreciate your time.

Last edited by dimi at Jan 16, 2017, 07.04 AM.
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By TheRealBabushka | Jan 16, 2017, 09:10 AM

Oh yippee another thread about the value of flying Qantas...Not!

That ship sailed a long time ago.

Qantas will always be my carrier of choice for domestic travel. But international travel?

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By Serg | Jan 16, 2017, 10:19 AM


.......Returning back to the original question of "Does Qantas really want me to fly with them?", I can imagine the discussion with a Qantas representative.......


Thanks for putting smile on my face ))
Question, of course, was rhetorical - as I said I do not remember when I purchased QF international ticket last time.
And talking supply/demand business - QF actually VERY competitive when you start your flight outside Australia. So why they getting on us? I suppose because they can. How they fill their seats from Australia? I guess by people who start their joinery outside Australia and by Australians who do not pay for their fare (i.e. employers paying for them).
PS just checked reverse flight MXP-MEL-MXP. Cheapest option as it should be is via DXB with EK/QF metal and total price is (drums.....) $5700, pretty much on par with AY.
Last edited by Serg at Jan 16, 2017, 10.34 AM.
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